Followers

Saturday, June 25, 2005

Since my opinion is censored let me ask yours

Do you find this OUTRAGEOUS?

37 comments:

Snag said...

I've almost gotten to the perverse point of hoping Bush keeps going. Each time more outlandish than before. He can keep going right to impeachment.
The damage is done, now to just give them enough rope to hang themselves with.

Anonymous said...

Impeachment? The Republican have the senate and the congress..impeachment?? That won't happen...Haliburton again wow does any one have stocks on this company? I am certain that there are many son of a bitches getting rich out of this war and one of them is Bush and his cabinet.

Snag said...

In 2006, we've got a chance to change the balance of power.
I'm not really thinking imeachment, just straight up criminal charges.

Anonymous said...

sarge, we know you miss yer wife and kids. we know its hot in tikrit. we know you're not a CO. and we won't try to put you in any box not your making.

your opinion gets laced up every morning when you put on the boots and pick up the m16. waht is it you want anyway? please be honest. besides going home to your wife and kids and forget about hurria and her families in iraq.

you're not a CO. you've killed before. won't hesitate again. so, what responses are you fishing for from cyberspace?

be honest with yourself, sarge, and with everyone in cyberspace. they're your boots.

Anonymous said...

Maybe he's fishing for the responses he's getting. Zach signed up to defend this country and he is honor-bound to defend it whether or not he believes in the cause of this war. While I wouldnt blame him in the least for wanting to run home and not fight, I think he is making the desision that is right for him. It may be hot, he may want to go home to his family, people may be trying to put him into some box but at least he is courages enough to put feelings out in cyberspace to be viewed by all.

Anonymous said...

Zachery, take care

Respect from Holland

Hurria said...

"Zach signed up to defend this country and he is honor-bound to defend it"

He is certainly NOT "defending his country" in Iraq. He is, in fact, participating in a pure war of aggression in which the aggressor is using him and others in a desperate attempt to dominate and subjugate a sovereign foreign state, and he seems to know it, too. This is the purpose for which he would unhesitatingly put a bullet in my head.

Kevin said...

Zack:

Great post and keep your head up. Keep telling us like it is. I have posted at my Blog my response to your article. You can find it at;

The Command T.O.C. Responds

Anonymous said...

I really wouldn't delude yourselves into thinking that a Democratic Congress will impeach or bring criminal charges against the BushCo cabal. They won't have the guts to, for fear of the back lash. Hopefully the world community will push sanctions, criminal charges, etc. The world community needs to isolate the US the same way the did the apartheid regime of South Africa.
-roamer in mich

Anonymous said...

I'm not really thinking imeachment, just straight up criminal charges.

I have always thought that Iraq would be Bush's Falklands. With Bush playing the part of Galtieri.

When this is all over we will have to ship Bush & Co off to The Hague and have a truth and reconciliation commission here.

In the mean time keep safe. All my best to you and your buddies. When you come home you will have some special insights this country needs.

Alice Marshall

Kate said...

Zach, I do find it outrageous. I'm starting to think these people are actually just cynical misanthropes. They want to spread chaos around the world and make a pretty penny doing it, regardless of the number of lives lost and ruined as a result, and all the while they cloak themselves in self-righteousness. It seems they hate people (other than themselves, of course) and want the apocalpyse to come sooner rather than later. I suppose the only thing that saves them from nihilism is their belief in money and power.

I can't help but fantasize that one day the people in charge will be held accountable, but history's not on that side for sure. Look at Pinochet. Or Salinas. He was just welcomed back to Mexico even though his government bankrupted the country with their corruption in the 1990s. And even here -- Kissinger is on TV as a respected commentator, along with Oliver North and G. Gordon Liddy. We've elevated liars and crooks to the status of "experts".

I don't know. I'm feeling down about it all these days. I know we have to keep fighting, but it does seem hopeless sometimes. Not always, but sometimes. Last night I saw a DVD of Larry the Cable Guy at my aunt's house. It was completely depressing. I can't believe how easy it is to manipulate people. He said one anti-gay joke after another, peppered with a few pro-gun epithets, waved around his confederate flag guitar. The audience looked at him with faun eyes like they were witnessing the return of the massiah. It was all so obvious: insert said symbol there, wear that symbol here, to show "I am one of you." Crazy.

Down here in southern Illinois they're nuts about these "Support Our Troops All the Way: God Bless America" signs. They're in nearly every yard. I can't help but wonder why they only want their god to bless us. Remember Chris Rock in Head of State? When his opponent would end every speech with "God Bless America and No One Else"? Those signs remind me of that. The good news is that their are liberals here, including everyone in my family. They're in unions and follow that tradition, even if they do watch Larry the Cable Guy. So that shows a bit of hope I guess.

Anyway, Zach, another too-long comment. I'm sorry.

Take care, my friend. I hope you're doing okay and you're family's in good health and spirits these days. Warm wishes to all of you --

Rufus said...

Well, the stories are disgusting. But, sadly, not surprising.

Kristen said...

Hurria, what do you expect him, or anyone else in Iraq to do? Throw down their weapons and take jail time? I know to you this is horrendous, but did you ever stop to think that maybe we feel the same way? Maybe we don't want to be there. That this is not what we signed up for. Its not as simple as you make it sound. No one over there can simply put there weapon down and walk away. Where would they walk to? Would they make it 100 yards away from base before they got blown up? Yes this war is an injustice, but to both sides. Zach is not trying to glorify himself or this war in anyway.
That being said, on to the real comment. Everytime I hear the name Halliburton, I get sick to my stomach. Sick that the men who started this war are profiting off of it while more and more innocent people from both sides are killed and a country is brought to the brink of a civil war. Bush has nearly single handedly started another Vietnam. And he's laughing all the way to the bank. There should be laws in place that prevent that kind of conflict of interest from happening. But since I can't change anything I'll just sit back and feel nauseous.

Hurria said...

Kristen,

What Zach does is up to him, what any of you do is up to you, but do not expect me to feel any compassion for someone who admits he would unhesitatingly put a bullet into my head, and who, after killing me, writes a poem expressing his deep pain.

He slaps me, and he wants sympathy.

Hurria said...

"did you ever stop to think that maybe we feel the same way?"

You cannot possibly feel the same way. Your home has not been violently invaded and every aspect of your life and society taken over and turned upside down by massively armed, hostile, ignorant brutes who insist they know better than you do what is good for you, that they are making great sacrifices for your benefit, and who will kill you unhesitatingly for any reason or for no reason at all. And then, to add insult to grievous injury, they cry, insist THEY are the victims, and demand compassion. Try it some time, Kristen. Try it for just one day, and then come back and tell me again how you feel.

Anonymous said...

hey kristen,

start a petition, adrress it to bitchco, ask em to come invade indiana, or utah or wherever you live. get yourself a REAL taste of the compassion hurria knows about.............. see how understanding you are of these poor exploited solders away from their families

i suggest: isolate ole gulag usa. my brother the fireman in chicago says the solution is a 30 foot high fence, around all the lower 48 states. no one gets in no one gets out. i think its a wonderful idea. let them eat suv's.

Noemi said...

There is nothing more I can say other than expletives.

I am upset with the goverment but since I am only 21 yrs old the best I can do is vote and become politicaly involved which I have been in the past. But as soon as I am old enough I will run for something. I ask that all who feel upset to write to the congressman, to call their phones and to email them. Tell them what you know and how upset you are. This cannot continue but merely being upset is not enough, you must act.


Zach, I wish you the best and that you come home safely to you wife and child. I say this not because you are a soldier but as a human being. We must value life whether that is of our compatriots, our family and friends but also of our fellow human beings whether good or not. The war on terror has taught me several things, America must change its values, our leaders must be humble and actually mean it and we, as citizens must become involved.

Thank you for giving me this opportunity and god bless you,

Noemi Martinez

Anonymous said...

Why does this surprise anyone? Our president lied to get us into this war....do you really think that any other unethical actions are beyond him?

Kristen said...

Hurria,

"You cannot possibly feel the same way. Your home has not been violently invaded and every aspect of your life and society taken over and turned upside down "

9/11. Plain and simple. I am not blaming Iraqis, or any other nation as a whole for it. Just the individuals who came from those nations. With one single act of terrorism they turned our country upside down. I know what you're thinking Hurria, oh boo hoo, they blew up 3 buildings so you destroy thousands of buildings and the lives of everyone who inhabits that area. I AM NOT DEFENDING WHAT OUR PRESIDENT DID TO YOU!!!!!! I am merely trying to offer another opinion. I am not trying to detract from what has happened to you and your family. But you CANNOT lump everyone in the Armed Forces or in the USA as war mongering, heartless, blood thirsty animals because they are following an order. I never lumped you into a terrorist category because you have family and/or live in the middle east. I didn't blame you for 9/11. I was in the Army and had I not broken my pelvis, I would be in Iraq right now with my husband and my other military friends. Don't preach to me telling me that I'm something I'm not. I DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO WAR! Neither did 90% of the people over there. I didn't vote for Bush, nor do I support a damn thing he does, but that doesn't change anything. I tried to do my part and get him out of there, but it is very rare that 1 person changes the world for the better. I never thought that democracy was best for you. I believe that the country should decide for itself. I never said any of those things. Neither did Zach. And the only way he wouldn't hesitate to put a bullet through your head is if you were pointing a weapon at him or if he felt threatened by you. When it comes down to it, if you were in the position of "my life or their life" you'd rather it be them that died, wouldn't you?
And as for you Mr. Anonymous, get off my back. Are YOU writing a letter to bitchco? Are you doing your part? I didn't think so. So don't tell me how to feel compassion. In fact don't tell me anything. Until you've walked in my shoes, or the shoes of any soldier, just keep your mouth shut. Until you've been spit on while you were running down the street because a president you didn't vote for put you in the middle of a war that you didn't want to be a part of, then don't even address me.

Anonymous said...

Amazing how things change. When I went to Australia two weeks after 9/11, people there were giving me condolences about 9/11. Some said to me, "You can't be American, you're too nice.", but they were respectful.
Now I read in an article American students are leaving Queensland universities because they are being verbally threatened and harassed. Thanks, Bush, you stupid moron.
-roamer in mich

Hurria said...

Kristen, on September 11 a terrible criminal act of mass murder was committed in which 3,000 people died, and several major buildings were destroyed in one small part of one city. It shocked the U.S., and most of the rest of the world, and made you feel, perhaps for the first time, vulnerable. If you really believe that the magnitude of what happened on September 11, and its effect on the U.S. people is even remotely equivalent to the horrifically massive death, destruction, chaos, and constant, 24 hour a day, 7 day a week misery that your country has brought to Iraq since March, 2003, then you are hopelessly without any sense whatsoever of what is being done in Iraq in your name.

I hate to minimize the impact and importance of September 11 to the American people, but compared to what you have done, and what you are putting the Iraqi people through in the last 27 months, September 11 is not much more than a bee sting.

Kate said...

Unfortunately, Hurria, many Americans took 9/11 as an opportunity to rally around hate and fear, which ultimately led us to invade Iraq. It's twisted and sad. They wanted "revenge," but how can you have "revenge" on the dead? The men who flew those planes are dead. And, of course, none of them were Iraqi.

We can bomb Iraq and every other country we've deemed a "threat" and we still won't have "revenge." That's the truth the administration doesn't want America to understand. They'd rather us stay fearful and hateful toward a bunch of ghosts. It keeps us under their control. Incidently, I don't think the administration actually cares about revenge at all, even against al qaeda. If they did, they wouldn't be treating the war in Afghanistan and the "hunt" for bin Laden as afterthoughts. No, I think they're just greedy imperialists who saw 9/11 as an opportunity to manipulate the people, and are hoping the war in Iraq will continue to give us something to rally around to keep us distracted enough to elect them again and again.

Many of us are frightened by the hate of our own countrymen these days. We can rationalize why they are so hateful and fearful, but it doesn't make it any easier to reason with them. The most absurd part of it is most of these people disliked New York City before 9/11 (and probably still do), lumping all urbanites into the "liberal latte drinking" crowd and the perenially feared other-than-white-criminal bunch. How many times I've heard anti-city remarks from rural Americans! It's insane. These same people have stickers on their cars that say "We'll never forget" across an image of the world trade center. As if they gave a rat's ass about NYC before 9/11. Please.

I know this doesn't make it any better for you or other Iraqis. Hopefully the other half of America will wake up and see reality for what it is, and see that their "compassionate conservative" president is neither compassionate nor conservative (we do have record deficits now!). This is all we can do from here: try to convince our neighbors to open up their eyes and acknowledge what's really going on so we can change it. I'm genuinely sorry your country has been overtaken by violence. I'm sickened by it, Hurria. Truly. I wish for peace and happiness for you.

One other thing...the neocons are now trying to convince us that we invaded Iraq to bring "freedom and democracy" and that both will spread across the middle east when led by Iraq's sterling example. They're so delusional about their domino theory they actually believe that this is part of America's heritage, and that Jefferson himself was a democracy imperialist. Michael Ignatieff has a ridiculous commentary about this in today's NY Times magazine. It would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous and revisionist. He asserts that conservatives believe in democracy and liberals don't. It's particularly farcical given the history of the suppression of the vote by conservatives over the years. Today's conservatives are the intellectual heirs of the anti-suffragettes and the anti-voting rights and pro-polling tax yahoos. Not to mention the inventors of the electoral college. They've never wanted democracy here in the US, only pure capitalism (and as we're demonstrating to the world, those two things aren't necessarily compatible).

Sorry for such a long comment, Zach. This is what happens when I haven't slept much for days. Sorry!!!
Take care my friend --

Snag said...

Very astute and well said Kate.

Anonymous said...

Well, in case you all haven't heard, the proposed ban on flag burning also has a section regarding disposal of aged flags--the method recommended is burning, of all things!

The republicans have done a lot of crap to keep themselves in power (not that Democrats would really have done any different). Most politicians are trying to earn a living, like you and I, and that takes precedence over the welfare of the US.

Kate, the great thing about America is that people can get away with bitching about each other--but that, when the day is done, we are all unified as fellow Americans. To pretty much any patriotic American, attacking one American citizen is like attacking us all, and will not be tolerated. In some other countries, groups are segregated to the point that they will not work together and coordinate, even with the threat of war from outside, hostile forces. I think most educated individuals will agree that working together and being united is much more likely to lead to success then being divided and chaotic. That is one reason (of many, such as natural resources) why America is a superpower.

Hurria, please remember that we sympathize with Zach because his plight is worse then ours. Same reason why we sympathize with you. I doubt anyone here really expects you to sympathize with Zach, or any others who have it better off then you. We also understand that what has happened in Iraq is much more devastating to your country then 9/11 was to our country--but there's no reason why any American should feel any more remorse over what has happened to Iraq then what happened here on US soil--unless its because they feel guilty about the fact that it was the US that has caused it.

America is definately the spoiled brat of the world. Some people think that because we are brats, we will have our downfall and have to reap the penalities of the seeds we have sown. However, recent history shows that a spoiled brat can become the most powerful person in the world (read:bush).

ScottyB.

Kristen said...

Well said Scotty.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, Scotty, your heart seems to be in the right place but are you sure about your arguments?

Firstly, all this patronising stuff about you guys being "unified as fellow Americans", working together and coordinating etc and not tolerating an attack on any American. Leaving aside the fact that Iraqis might welcome the opportunity to work together on re-building their own country, free of foreign interference for the first time in almost a century, your theme sounds a lot like "my country, right or wrong", doesn't it? Or to put it another way, "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel".

Well, the Nazis were unified as fellow Germans, worked together and coordinated exceptionally well, believed in their country right or wrong, and certainly tolerated no attacks (not even imaginary ones like the Reichstag fire) on any German. But we don't think they deserve our praise or respect, because we remember the awful consequences of their actions. Poor Zach and his pals are "only following orders", but the consequences of those orders and their willingness to follow them are what count.

This idea of American exceptionalism - that you are somehow superior to the rest of us - is a major part of the problem with US foreign policy: your governments and people act is if international laws and even the rules of basic human decency do not apply to Americans, as if Americans can do no wrong, or if they do wrong, then everything can still be made better with a few sentimental platitudes, like the last 5 minutes of an episode of "The Waltons". The modern cult of competitive victimhood ensures that you can still delude yourselves that your suffering as a nation over 9/11 in any way compares with that of the people of Iraq. And many of your troops (not Zach, to his credit) seem to be genuinely mystified by their hostile reception in Iraq, because they have been brainwashed into thinking that America is always right, a rude and often fatal awakening for all concerned.

You know that 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq, except that it allowed Bush to exploit the ignorance and sentimental self-righteousness of the Great American Public to launch his long-planned war on Iraq. The fact is it's 9/11 every week in Iraq (and every month in Palestine, but that's another story). American governments spent decades arming and training the most ruthless terrorists and brutal dictators in Latin America and elsewhere, and individual Americans supported Irish terrorism for decades. Yet now you seem to suggest that Americans should not be expected to feel any remorse over the consequences of their own actions, simply because of what happened in New York, as if America had its own moral "Get Out of Jail Free" card.

Well, as you hinted, America's chickens are most definitely coming home to roost in Iraq, but it's still mostly the poor souls outside the USA like Hurria that are paying the price. Even the (far fewer) US casualties are often hushed up by your media and politicians - funny how Bush loves to be filmed with live American soldiers but hates anybody seeing dead ones, eh? So the sooner all you good thoughtful people in the USA get your heads around the fact that this is primarily your war and it is your responsibility to end it, the better for the rest of the world, including America.

Zach and his buddies deserve our sympathy as human beings, but if you really want to support your troops, get them the hell out of there, encourage them to quit, support their efforts to get out of the army, before they pay with yet more lives (theirs or Iraqis) for the follies of your own government.

Peace to all of you.

Taff

MagginKat said...

Yes, I consider the Halliburton contract outrageous but then this is what this insane war is all about...Bu$h's war is for enriching bu$h's supporters, the people who helped install him in the Oval office. Just about everything about this fraudulent administration is one massive bald faced lie.

Best of luck to you. I hope you are home with your family soon.

I think that impeachment of bu$h is of utmost importance but also a large number of congressmen should be impeached for over riding the Constitution and allowing this mad man to have vurtually unlimited powers to do as he please. To me that is a dictatorship. So how is he any better than Saddam?

My son just returned from a year+ in that hell hole and is in limbo because of Rumsfeld's stop loss order. He's already without a job because of Bu$h's war & now if he finds another if may be 'gone with the wind' if the stop loss is implemented.

Anonymous said...

What A Load Of $hit!

Anonymous said...

Hell no, I don't find it outrageous! I would much rather fight them there than here. Yes, I know that YOU believe that it is a war of aggression. Well, just exactly who do you think started that war of aggression? Clue - it had to do with the bombings on 9/11. Get it yet? They brought it to us, imbicile. We took it back to them. And while you are musing about what a wonderful soldier you are, how about this, you are no American. You do not appear to value your freedom or to value those who gave their lives for you to have the FREEDOM to run off at the mouth AGAINST America. In earlier years, your behavior would be considered treasonous. Yes, treasonous because you are loudly displaying your disloyalty to America. Your badmouthing of Bush and America are nothing more than the evidence exhibited by other "liberals" who really cannot think for themselves. I doubt that this will be published, but if it is, I hope you get my message that every man in my family history has joined the military of their own free will, fought in wars, died in wars, and gave their life's blood to insure that TODAY, you and I have the FREEDOM to express our opinions. Keep it up and maybe you will have the priviledge of serving in the military of a dictatorial country instead of the great USA.

Bret Wier said...

AMEN!!!

Anonymous said...

Zach, although you probably already have, tell the rest of us what you think about this?

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050711-5080.html

Paul said...

the way i see it we have only a few options.

1. A standard overthrow of bushco with the siupport of the military

2. A revoluton over the net (bush has a blog) + hacking the pentagon using the pentagon's mediocre computers agbanst them

3. Bide our time and wat for bush to leave

4. use the majority of people le us to vote him out of offce (very dffcult)

Anonymous said...

Zack: You are a Soldier First til you get out. You are a Father 2nd, And the best dad to your kids by showing them your strengths! I pray for your confusion to stop. I also pray for Bush to get out of office too, but as we all know, that won't matter anyway. Iraq is going to be policed until they get all the freebies from us we can afford...about 6 more years? We can't afford that! Hope we leave them to their own misery. They think we are an occupy, technically speaking we are, but- temporary at that. I really hope to pull out of there and show them what freedoms they did have...LOL, forget the oil...they will drink that when they get thirsty enough.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous just spewed the brain washing crud of Bu$h and cronies. You have the gall to criticize this man who is a HUMAN first, then a soldier second? As far as your "treason and patriotism" goes, I would hearken your purile mind to our forefather's battle tactics of the revolutionary war. We used tactics that were considered "ungentlemanly" this isn't a far cry from "terrorism". We attacked their logistics and supply lines, killed their officers, etc. A man that thinks for himself, signed a line with his name, and still honors the agreement he made with me (I am "we the people" as are you) I have the utmost respect for him. He is entitled his opinion, and he states it well. I would also like you to contemplate why no one keeps track of Iraqi dead? Why... because centric asses like yourself simply see them as inferior versus what they are... just like us, "people". Zack is a soldier, and he will do what he is told. That is and has always been their jobs. It is up to us the "electorate" to ensure the proper use of our armies. I hate to read what some have to say about this part: I watched Moore's "Farenheit 911" there was a piece of this film where an Iraqi man was carrying a child into a hospital. The child's ass was soaked, and I knew what that meant. My heart broke watching this, picturing the absolute hatred I would feel twoards the bastards that killed my baby. I understand the hatred.. the fear on both sides. What we need to understand is this: The poor bastards in Alabama have more in common with the poor bastards in Tikrit than they do with their own leaders. How many of us have actually had a senator come to their home and ask what their opinion was? How could they help etc. The answer is simple, never. Unless you contribute to their campaigns they don't give a rat's ass. It may be time for the conscientious people of the world to shout in a unified voice of reason "No more". No more "power players" no more exploitation, and no more war. And yes, I will quote that lovely man named Lennon. "War is over... if you want it."
Rob Mello

Anonymous said...

I would also like you to contemplate why no one keeps track of Iraqi dead? Why... because centric asses like yourself simply see them as inferior versus what they are... just like us, "people".

Rob, How would you know the way one man sees others? From one post in a public forum?

they are... just like us, "people".

Whom are you referring to here? The Innocent people of Iraq who are caught up in the middle of all this? Or the Terrorists?

I don't believe it is the objective of Anonymous to do harm to innocent civilians. You hate war. I think everyone can understand that. But there are persons & entities out there who wish to do us harm as a nation, perhaps as a people. Anon prefers a proactive approach to dealing with it. Your no war approach brings them to our doorstep, how would you deal with it then?

Anonymous just spewed the brain washing crud of Bu$h and cronies.

Here again you think you know someone. One does not have to have a particular party affiliation to be critical of another.

I watched Moore's "Farenheit 911" there was a piece of this film where an Iraqi man was carrying a child into a hospital. My heart broke watching this.

You are not the only one with a heart sir. Many of us soldiers have a distaste for the horror that war brings. But instead of running blogs, we work hard at solving the issues and eliminating the enemies of freedom. It is this dedication to the ideals of freedom that leads some families to a tradition of military service.

Some of your words do ring true though, there are people all over the world just like us. And then there are the enemies of freedom. We will have to deal with them together, as Americans. Let's try not to misunderstand or hate eachother in doing so. Because we all want Peace & Freedom.

Anonymous said...

Wow.. the ENEMIES of FREEEDOM!!

What a great slogan!!

WHat do you really know about freedom????? The military is the antithesis of freedom. I spent more than 20 years in it so I think I should know.

You have sucked up the propaganda like a puppy at a bowl of milk. Try thinking "outside the box" for a few seconds.

I suppose the families of all the civilians we've killed by accident and design appreciate that their deaths have brought freedom, and those enemies of FREEDOM just can't understand that being occupied by trigger-happy foriegners is indeed, FREEDOM.

If you did a little study you'd find that what "brings them to our doorstep" is basing soldiers on their "Holy Soil" and our never-questioning, total support of anything Israel chooses to do.

It's just not quite as simple as you would have it.

The glorious, shining Americans on one side, and the evil Enemies of Freedom on the other.

But that sure is allot easier to deal with than messy reality.

Enjoy your choices.

Ed

Anonymous said...

"Wow.. the ENEMIES of FREEEDOM!!"
I wish it were just a slogan!
"WHat do you really know about freedom?????"
I know it's better than death at the hands of the sociofacist islamists.
So was it before or after 911 that we were on their "Holy" Land?
"It's just not quite as simple as you would have it."
Sometimes it is. If someone is trying to kill you, are they good or bad?.