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Thursday, August 04, 2005

Manifest Destiny

With our "War on Terror" we have our Manifest Destiny. It must be our God given right to bring war to all those who oppose democracy and liberty, Right? If you don't have democracy we will bring it to you by force, and by God you will like it! That must be how the world sees us, not as liberators but as crusaders with our shining swords and white horses. We who are prepared to kill in order to bring not Christianity this time but Democracy.

The terrorists should be quaking in their boots right? WRONG! One CIA report leaked to the Washington Post describes Iraq as the "New Terror Breeding Ground". There are Many who think that we will force the Axis of Evil to bend to our will. The fact that we can force other countries to bend to our will therefore makes us right to do so. Hell, we are ridding them of their tyrannical oppressors, but what many are beginning to see is that we in turn now look like, and to many, ARE the oppressors. Where is the honor in the act of oppression?

87 comments:

Kate said...

Exactly. It's so depressing, Zach. And it makes me angry because I don't want my country turned into the next Evil Empire.

I hope you are doing okay. Take care --

emma said...

I agree completely, but alas your superiors do not - watch yourself, Zach, I would hate to see this blog pulled.

Chris said...

Zach - I'm glad you're posting again (and am new to reading your blog). I couldn't agree with you more. It seems the leaders just don't see the futility or the frustration.

Take care of yourself.

Spider said...

.."It only takes that 1% to screw it up for the other 99%".. Quote me on that.. And this post here looked like a good spot for it to be.. Put so eloquently from a Marine serving In Iraq..

Stupid Lefty Slogans
Periodically I think about the various one-liner phrases that many on the left seem so fond of. You’ve seen them on bumper stickers and protest signs – “No blood for oil”, “Give peace a chance”, and “War never solved anything.” It is my belief that the depth of thought on the left is so simplistic and shallow – almost non-existent – that the entirety can easily be scrawled on a sign or bumper sticker.

No blood for oil. Obviously those who mindlessly chant such things are completely ignorant of the fact that “No blood for oil” is the precise outcome of the invasion of Iraq. Prior to April ‘03, France, Germany, Russia, and China had $$Billions$$ worth of oil contracts with the very bloody Saddam Hussein. These countries stood to make significant profits by purchasing very cheap Iraqi oil (or trading weapons for it), and selling the refined products at a substantial mark-up to the citizens of their own countries. Fuel in Europe is expensive because of taxes, not scarcity.

These countries were in the “Big Business” of “Blood for oil” – and making a ton of money. In fact their complicity in Saddams horrors give literal meaning to the slang phrase “Making a killing.”….. They were willing to ignore the millions of rapes, murders, and tortures of Saddam as well as his harboring, financing, and support of various terrorist organizations. The invasion of Iraq and subsequent regime change put an END to the “Blood for oil” scheme.

Give peace a chance. This mantra has been around for decades. The interesting thing about this is that everything we’re doing here in Iraq is all about giving peace a chance. As long as tyrannical thugs and despots exist in this world, peace has little or no chance in their areas of control.

Of course we can’t fight everyone, but we can certainly go after the ones that pose the greatest threat to peace, as well as the ones in which we have a reasonably good chance of overcoming. Saddam was one such candidate. By deposing him, peace not only has a chance in Iraq, but possibly throughout other parts of the Middle East.

Lebanon is now bucking their Syrian oppressors and there is increasing clamor in Iran for freedom from the Islamic theocracy that governs with an iron fist. Iraq is the lynchpin – the global arena. Jihadists are streaming here from all over the world, desperately hoping to stomp out the spread of peace, freedom and hope, and return to the status quo of terror, oppression and death.

If the forces that oppose peace (the so-called “Insurgency”) are defeated here, peace will have a chance. Perhaps people all over will begin to rise up and fight for their own peace. Peace has to be fought for, as well as died for.

http://camelspider.typepad.com/hurl/

Anonymous said...

Zach, I agree with you. I hope that the time you have left in the military will go quickly, so that you can go back to Tara and your children. Take care.

Lisa

Anonymous said...

yo, snark attack,

we know you miss your wife and kids. and we know you're a compassionate, sensitive guy, even though you've already killed and will do it again. why the soul searching from you here on this blog? you passin on info to uncle cia?

read this if you dare. we know you're not a CO either.

http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/dispatches/000271.php#more

Anonymous said...

Zack, keep writing your words. I read your blog everyday. I have a feeling your writing keeps you alive and well. I pray that you and the rest of the US forces return safely. God bless.

Scott in MN

Anonymous said...

Well said, Zach.

As for Spider's "stupid lefty slogans", maybe you need to fill out the picture a little by listening to some voices beyond "Fox News"?

"Blood for oil" and European countries: true, various European companies were dodging sanctions and trading with Iraq to some extent. But so were big US corporations (as George Galloway pointed out at his Senate hearing), which is probably why the Bush administration has gone quiet on sanctions-busting. Similarly for complicity in Saddam's crimes - Rumsfeld was on a sales trip to Baghdad the day Iraq started gassing Iranians in its war with Iran, and neither the US nor the UK governments (left or right) made much fuss about the "threat" from Iraq prior to 1991, regardless of the thousands of victims of Saddam's terror. Any more than they give a damn about the crimes of Putin in Chechnya, Karimov in Uzbekistan, Sharon in Palestine, or about what happens in places like Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay and the rest of "our" new gulag.

Has the US/UK invasion really brought an end to "blood for oil"? Around 2000 coalition soldiers and anything from 25,000 to 100,000 Iraqis (we don't count them so maybe their blood doesn't count either) have been killed as a result of our war. Meanwhile, Iraqi national assets have been privatised and handed over to (mainly US) big business. Bechtel and Halliburton are doing just fine, while millions of dollars in US taxpayers' money that was supposed to help "re-construct" Iraq has disappeared without trace. Sounds like a lot of blood for a lot of oil and money.

How about eliminating the "threat" from Saddam? More people have died after Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" than during the invasion when Saddam was supposedly fighting for his life (i.e. hiding in a spider-hole). Currently, coalition forces and local gangsters seem to be about equal in the deaths inflicted on ordinary Iraqis, with the terrorists/insurgents a long way behind (although they're doing their ruthless best to catch up). No WMDs were found because they didn't exist, global terrorism has increased, and Iraq is in bloody chaos. Mission accomplished?

Promoting peace and democracy in the region? You mention Syria's withdrawal from Lebanon, but why not try ending decades of US support for Israel's brutal and racist occupation of Palestine, which is killing Israelis and Palestinians alike and provokes anger and hatred all over the Muslim world? This could be ended in a matter of months if the political will existed, and it would defuse the single greatest cause of instability in the region and beyond.

As for Iran, it was US support for the "moderate" candidate in recent elections which helped ruin whatever chances he might have had - I'm sure Iranians don't like being told who to vote for any more than we do. Anyway, if current rhetoric is to be believed, we're about to launch a war on Iran as well, and our bombs will not distinguish between mullahs and democrats. Incidentally, our current outrage over Iran's nuclear ambitions is evidence of yet more Western hypocrisy: the BBC just revealed that Britain (as well as France) helped Israel's nuclear programme, and nobody ever suggests bombing Tel Aviv because of Israel's WMDs.

Incidentally, opposition to the war is not just a "lefty" thing or even restricted to pacifists - my own family is mostly to the right of Ghengis Khan politically, but they all had doubts about the war, as did the majority of us Brits left and right (only a third supported the war when we invaded, and even fewer do so now despite the natural desire to support "our boys"), and millions of us marched against it. I'm sure that left and right can agree that our duty to our troops is not to throw their lives away in pursuit of greed or unattainable and indefensible goals. Supporting them - to many of us - means opposing the way our governments are currently abusing the faith and commitment of our armed forces in Iraq.

There were no Islamist terrorists/insurgents in Iraq, until we created a playground for them. If we want to fight terrorism, part of the solution is to stop creating more terrorists. And if the invasion was to promote democracy for Iraqis, maybe the best thing to do would be to ask them if they want us to stay in Iraq? If we could hold a "democratic" election, surely we could hold a democratic referendum?

Peace and safe home-coming to all in Iraq.

Taff

Anonymous said...

At least lefty slogan bumper stickers have a slogan. (W-04 with an american flag is pretty original and thought provoking) There are non-thinkers everywhere you look.

cornelius said...

Zach:
I admire your courage, not only as a soldier, but as one who is willing to risk by speaking his mind. It is unfortunate that the lipservice (or should I say bumpter sticker service) we give to supporting our troops goes not further than that. Few of those who carry the plastic ribbons on their vehicles give much of a thought to you and your buddies over there, or anywhere else.

Those in power use slogans and soundbites to blind their gullible public to their push for more and more power. War is hell, they say, but mostly for those in uniform. The rest of us drive around comfortably in our SUVs sporting "Support our troops" ribbons.

Please know that my prayers are with you and your loved ones. I don't read your blog regularly, but do look in from time to time and always find it inspiring. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Hurria said...

"War is hell, they say, but mostly for those in uniform."

Not really. War is hell mostly for the people whose country has been invaded, whose loved ones are killed, whose limbs are blown off, whose cities and lives are destroyed by those in uniform.

Kate said...

Tobias Wolff said that war is mostly violence against civilians. Pretty much what you're saying, Hurria. It's horrible that we talk about war as if it were actually between combatants and no one else, when in reality it is noncombatants who suffer the most.

Today is the anniversary of the dropping of the world's first atomic bomb. Over 100,000 civilians died instantaneously in Hiroshima sixty years ago today, with countless others dying over the next decade or so from radiation-related illness. Now we have a nutcase for a vice president who is drafting plans to attack Iran with nuclear weapons if America is hit again with another terrorist attack. It's complete and utter insanity. Sadly, too, there are many Americans who feel no remorse whatsoever over the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, nor the nightmare of the threat of nuclear holocaust that those bombings have left with us. They have no sense of the sadness inherent in all war, nor how this sadness should prevent us from waging war needlessly.

A poet I worked with in Chicago wrote a powerful poem immediately after 9/11 called "American Rage: Poems of War" (you can read it here: http://www.jot.org/jot/thatday.html ). The poem is incredibly prescient -- he wrote it months before we attacked Afghanistan and years before we attacked Iraq. He ends the poem with one line that says it all, I think, and is meant to remind us that war is serious business with serious consequences and shouldn't be entered into lightly (or in the case of the poet's perspective, ever. Charlie Clements is a pacifist):

"It is sad. War is always sad."

Anonymous said...

"Sadly, too, there are many Americans who feel no remorse whatsoever over the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki"

Why should we feel Remorse for having to defeat the enemy?

I feel no remorse for them, Pitty maybe, but definitely not remorse!

Do you think that Al-Qaeda members feel remorse for cutting the heads off of journalists and civil workers?

I think NOT!

Hurria said...

"I feel no remorse for them..."

"Do you think that Al-Qaeda members feel remorse for cutting the heads off of journalists and civil workers?
"

Which makes you no better than the so-called Al-Qaeda members to which you refer. Enough said.

Hurria said...

Kate, the real victims of war are always those whose country has been invaded, whether they are civilians or those in the military whose duty it is to defend their country against aggression, or those who choose to resist the aggressors. While I can understand the urge on the part of some to view the troops of the aggressor as victims, I cannot join in that delusion. They are there to dominate others in their own homeland, and to kill and destroy and torture to whatever extent is necessary to do so. And in the final analysis, they have a choice to be there or not. The civilians, the military who defend against the aggressors, and the resistance fighters, who make up the vast majority of the so-called "insurgents" have no choice.

Hurria said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Hurria said...

"we in turn now look like, and to many, ARE the oppressors."

You are there to enforce by any means necessary your government's domination of Iraq and its people. In your attempt to achieve that goal you are using means that go far, far, far beyond anything Saddam Hussein could have ever dreamed of. Further, you have wrought on the country a level of destruction and misery that Iraq has not seen since the Mongol invasion.

You, I imagine, follow faithfully whatever orders you are given to achieve this dominance by whatever means necessary despite your clear awareness of the true nature of the project you are participating in. What does that make you? Hypocrite is one word that springs easily to mind.

Anonymous said...

Some more thoughts from US Iraq veterans on their actions in Iraq: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/080505C.shtml

"I was turning ambulances away from going to hospitals, I killed civilians, I tortured guys...and I'm ashamed of that. Once you are there, it has nothing to do with politics...it has to do with you as an individual being there and killing people for no reason. There is no purpose, and now I'm sick at myself for doing these things. I kept telling myself I was there for my buddies. It was a weak reasoning...because I still shut my mouth and did my job."

Lectronicman said...

Keep up the good work Zach and stay safe. You are appreciated and thanks for doing your job so that others can sit in their easy chairs....

As a Vet from a previous conflict, I can tell you from experience that you are not in "hell" now, but you will be for the rest of your life after the battle is over. (The blood doesnt go away.)

Kate said...

The Anonymous who feels no remorse:

Even if you think dropping nuclear weapons on two cities filled with civilians was justified, you should feel remorse for the loss of life and the terror those bombs have left us: our worry over the possibility for nuclear holocaust. If you aren't capable of feeling remorse for the loss of life, if you have no compassion for them, then Hurria is right, you are no different than any other sociopath.

Luckily, most people aren't sociopaths. In his book "On Killing", David Grossman, a former Ranger and professor at West Point, talked about how the military changed their training tactics after WW II and Korea because the kill ratios were so terrible -- many more bullets were spent for how many "enemy" were killed. Grossman found about 2% of any given population are true sociopaths capable of killing without mercy. The mlitary worked hard to develop systems of training that would give soldiers the reflexes to kill more effectively. The problem was, the military didn't prepare soldiers for the psychological troubles they faced after killing so well, which led to a sizable percentage of Vietnam vets dealing with the after effects of PTSD for the rest of their lives. In the end, t is too much to ask people to kill for us.

I suppose, Anonymous, you have no sympathy for American soldiers who come back with PTSD either. You probably think they're wimps, not "real" soldiers, or some other kind of nonsense. Which means, I guess, that like all people with sociopathic tendencies you only care about yourself.

Talk about sad.

Zach, here I've said how your comments have a life of their own and I've gone and helped that along by answering anonymous comments, thus moving this along to nowhere. I hope you're doing okay, that your transition back to Iraq has been as good as it can be.

Take care, friend --

Hurria said...

"thanks for doing your job so that others can sit in their easy chairs...."

The "job" that Zach and others are doing in Iraq is a completely unnecessary one. They are participating in an absolutely unnecessary,unwarranted, and unjust war of aggression that was undertaken by their government for political and economic gain. They are not contributing to "others being able to sit in their easy chairs". Quite the opposite in fact. By doing their "jobs" in Iraq they are helping to make the world, and Americans' place in the world less safe.

Hurria said...

If some U.S. troops are returning home with PTSD, try to imagine the rates of PTSD, as well as even worse psychological effects, among the Iraqi population. Imagine the permanent, lifelong effects of this criminal war on an entire generation of Iraqi children.

And the effects of years of this kind of unrelenting, unescapable trauma do not end with its direct victims. I remember a correspondence I had with the middle aged son of two holocaust survivors. He was deeply psychologically scarred having been raised by parents whose moods and behaviour was profoundly affected by the trauma they suffered in the death camps. And his children were deeply affected from being raised by a father who was not psychologically healthy. Imagine the effect this little boy's experiences will have on the rest of his life, and his children's lives, and their children's lives. Now multiply that effect by the the millions of children in Iraq who have gone through unrelenting hell for the past 29 months.

And bear in mind that the effect on Iraqis, both adults and children is the same regardless of whether the agent of the effect feels no remorse at all, or follows orders, then self-indulgently agonizes eloquently about it afterward. They are just as dead, just as maimed, just as grieved, just as homeless, just as traumatized, just as physically and psychologically scarred either way. And they have no choice whatsoever in the matter. They have not voluntarily forced their way by the use of massive deadly and destructive violence into someone else's world. They are not using even more deadly and destructive violence to maintain their dominance over someone else's homeland. They are just trying to live and survive in their own homes in the face of the insanity that is being imposed on them by outside forces.

Hurria said...

And what about this little boy, and his children, and his children's children?

Kate said...

Hurria, there was a story about the outrageous rates of PTSD among Iraqis in the paper yesterday. I will try to find the article and post the link here.

Daedalus said...

The State Department issued a travel warning for Americans last week. It wasn't to Iraq, Palestine, or any particular country. No, it was for the WORLD. The State Department no longer thinks it is safe for Americans to travel anywhere, and it states the reason as "events in Iraq." So it is official, the Iraq war has fucked up the world, according to the US government.

Sigh...

Stay safe, Zach.

Daedalus said...

p.s. Zach, you should consider running for office when you get back. I think your sense and sensitivity would make you a good legislator.

Hurria said...

Thanks Kate. It's bloody well about time there was some acknowledgement somewhere of the psychological effects this criminal war and occupation are having on the real victims - the Iraqi people.

Hurria said...

Daedalus, thanks for the mention of the State Department report. Do you have a link to it?

And so much for the crap about Zach doing his job "so others can sit in their easy chairs".

Fabi said...

Hey Zack, another great post from you, i read your blog whenever i can...
I agree with Hurria in almost everything he said...
The real victims of this war are the people in Iraqi specially the children, well i only can think about them now, they'll may be grow up with anger and big will to revenge if this war is really wrong, is not cool to see people you love suffering and see the place where you live been destroyed, and when they discover that all the people behind this war including the soldiers are getting some money trough it and not helping their country in any way, when they notice that their native soil was invaded because of money and power by people from another countries, you only can expect for revenge some day...
I may know just a little bit about what a child in Iraqi is passing now, i lived in a war zone for many years in my life, i spend my childhood in my home country Colombia, in my country was and still have a war going on, a different kind of war but still is a war, i hate war so much because i saw what it brings, i saw the brutality, i saw the blood, i saw the suffering, i saw the stupidity, obviously the memories of these terrible times will be with me forever, but it doesn't bother me a lot actually...
One think i'm sure is that while there are people in the planet will happen wars, we enjoy violence, we enjoy killing each other, well study history and you will see it...
Enough of bla bla.

Kate said...

Hurria, I have looked and looked for the article and I can't find it anywhere. It says a lot that it was the only one. If there were others, I'd find them in my searches. It's positively shameful. I will continue to look and when I find it I'll post it here.

Kate said...

Fabi -- I'm so sorry about the violence your country has lived with these past decades. It's horrible. One of my Spanish teachers was Colombian and he and his family had to flee the violence years ago. He has struggled since then to make a life for himself in Chicago. A lawyer in Colombia, here he is an hourly teacher barely making ends meet. Again, another civilian among millions whose life was thrown into chaos by the machinations of a few. Sad.

Take care --

Hurria said...

Thanks again, Kate. I appreciate your effort, and even more I appreciate your acknowledgement of this issue and the fact that it has received so little attention.

Anonymous said...

HURRIA,

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF FALUN GONG? IT IS A FORM OF QIGONG THAT IS CENTURIES OLD. I RECOMMEND IT TO EVERYONE. I THINK IT WILL HELP YOU & YOUR LOVED ONES DEAL WITH YOUR ANGER. IT HAS HELPED ME & I HOPE THIS CAN HELP YOU TOO!

MAY ALAH BLESS YOU,
PAT

Anonymous said...

Hurria said...

Which makes you no better than the SO-CALLED Al-Qaeda


I have never claimed to be better than anyone.

However, the whole people of Japan were ready to fight the US street by street. Even top US generals were concerned with having to fight that kind of battle, witch might have meant a loss for allied forces, a win for axis forces & world dominance for Germany.

By your continuous claims expressed here, it would seem that the whole people of Iraq are ready to fight street by street. But lets not have a repeat of history here.

However, on a more personal level, do you consider journalists and civil workers to be the enemy? If you do, what does this make you out to be?

I haven't heard of any reports of US soldiers kidnapping Iraqi citizens, making ridiculous demands, and beheading captives. If you have, show me the evidence cause I missed its showing on Al-Jazeera!

Kate...

Remorse as defined by the websters dictionary is: A gnawing distress arising from a sense of guilt for past wrongs.

So by the mere definition of the word, I should not feel remorse for something I did not participate in. But rather than try to parse the definition, I will say that I do feel pity for an enemy so willing to die for their political heirarchy and religious beliefs. And yes I do feel sadness at the loss of life.

But you have not heard me try to justify any of the criminal acts of the Abu Graihb scandal. Will Hurria feel pity or sadness at the loss of the innocent journalists and civil workers? Or maybe she thinks they got their just rewards, just for being in her precious country. Perhaps you should ask.

Anonymous said...

Journalists: US forces during the invasion killed more independent journalists than the Iraqi forces did, including the deliberate bombing of Al-Jazeera's offices in Baghdad (second time - they did the same in Afghanistan) and targeting the Palestine hotel in Baghdad where many non-embedded journalists were staying.

Plenty of Iraqi citizens have been "kidnapped" i.e. grabbed off the streets and "disappeared" into hellholes like Abu Ghraib.

And we've dusted their cities with DU and cluster munitions that will be killing Iraqis for decades to come.

So, no, "we" don't kidnap/behead people. But "they" haven't yet sprayed DU over Washington or London, have they?

What goes around comes around.

Hurria said...

Pat,

Our "anger" is based on the fact that our country has been invaded by foreign forces who have destroyed much of it and killed tens of thousands of Iraqis. It is based on the fact that for 29 months Iraqis have been subjected to a brutal, deadly, destructive occupation by a foreign force that is determined to use any means decessary to dominate this country and its people.

Try living year after year under these kinds of conditions, and see how your Falun Gong will help you then.

Mike Crichton said...

Hurria said:

"You are there to enforce by any means necessary your government's domination of Iraq and its people. In your attempt to achieve that goal you are using means that go far, far, far beyond anything Saddam Hussein could have ever dreamed of."

Which is of course why the mass-graves are overflowing, the mustard gas is sprayed freely, and prisoners are tortured to death by the thousands as a matter of policy.

" Further, you have wrought on the country a level of destruction and misery that Iraq has not seen since the Mongol invasion."

Hyperbolize much? I won't say that don't have legitimate complaints, but I think you're exagerrating a bit here

Anonymous said...

Journalists: US forces during the invasion killed more independent journalists

Weren't these journalsits "Embeded" amongst the Afghani & Iraqi Forces? Then until we develope bullets and bombs that are smart enough to only kill the combatants, journalists will be casualties.

Or perhaps we should develope "Guillotine" bombs that will cut thier heads off instead.

Do you think that the beheading of the Civil workers who are trying to restore even some small measure of normalcy back to the Iraqi's, was a just reward for their efforts?


Plenty of Iraqi citizens have been "kidnapped" i.e. grabbed off the streets and "disappeared" into hellholes like Abu Ghraib.

Ya, when Saddam was in power! Every arrest of an Iraqi "Citizen" MUST be documented, Period. So there is no Disappearing of citizens that you speak of, at the hands of the US forces.


And we've dusted their cities with DU and cluster munitions

DU is used to penetrate armoured hulls of tanks etc. It might have been used in the early days of the war, but I don't believe that DU is being used now. And most cluster munitions are set to self detonate after a specified period of time has elapsed, per a UN initiative.

And yes what does go around, does come around.

Mike Crichton said...

"Every arrest of an Iraqi "Citizen" MUST be documented, Period. So there is no Disappearing of citizens that you speak of, at the hands of the US forces."

Most Iraqis don't have easy access to that documentation. It can be weeks before they talk to the right bureaucrat. That's assuming that we've followed proper procedure, there have been plenty of cases of 'ghost' detainees. Try watching something other than Faux News, you might learn something.

"DU is used to penetrate armoured hulls of tanks etc. It might have been used in the early days of the war, but I don't believe that DU is being used now."

Depleted Uranium is a heavy metal that stays in the local environment for a looong time. Toxic levels are still found in in areas where tanks were shot 15 years ago. Barring massively expensive cleanup efforts, the stuff will stay around for decades, and it's more toxic than lead, arsenic, and mercury put together.

" And most cluster munitions are set to self detonate after a specified period of time has elapsed, per a UN initiative."

And we all know how foolproof technology is. Which is why unexploded cluster bomblets in Bosnia still go off years later. Twit.

Anonymous said...

Most Iraqis don't have easy access to that documentation.

This still does not mean they are dissapeared.

Depleted Uranium is a heavy metal that stays in the local environment for a looong time.

Yes but it was not used to put a coating of dust on their cities, as you have so irresponsibly suggested.

And we all know how foolproof technology is.

Cluster munitions are surface laid, making it much easier to clear the unex. Furthermore the US keeps good track of where we put our minefields, unlike other nations like bosnia who just place them anywhere and do not create a minefield card to locate them later.

TWIT!

Anonymous said...

Where is the honor in the act of oppression?

Where is the honor in the act of Terrorism?

Anonymous said...

HURRIA Said...

"Try living year after year under these kinds of conditions, and see how your Falun Gong will help you then."

I can see that your anger is deeply rooted. We Falun Gong practitioners have lived with the oppression of the chinese & other governments for literally hundreds of years.

Some of our practitioners simply Dissappear overnight. Many are thrown into prison because of the fear the Chinese government has of us. I have lost many friends and fellow practitioners over the years. If you ask their neighbors where they have gone, they deny ever knowing them. They seem to simply cease to exist. Except in our memory.

I have heard of reports that they have their body organs harvested for the aged elite chinese leaders.

Through our teachings and daily practice, we learn to be at harmony with ourselves and the universe. I still think that Falun Gong will help you, if you will only try it.

May Alah Protect You.
Pat

Hurria said...

Pat,

Assuming you are sincere, thanks, but my anger, like my joy, is only as "deep seated" as the situation that provokes it, and begins and ends with that situation. The only way to end my anger is to end the violent, brutal, deadly, destructive occupation of Iraq.

I am actually aware of the persecution of the Falun Gong in China, and of course it is deeply wrong in every imaginable way.

Hurria said...

"Weren't these journalsits "Embeded" amongst the Afghani & Iraqi Forces?"

No, they were not. They were independent. That means they were not imbedded with anyone.

mike crichton said...

"This still does not mean they are dissapeared."

If their families don't know where they are, they may as well be.

"Depleted Uranium is a heavy metal that stays in the local environment for a looong time.

Yes but it was not used to put a coating of dust on their cities, as you have so irresponsibly suggested."


Don't know how DU works, do you? It's useful for munitions because of its high density and pyrophoric nature: It hits the target, the outer portion of the round combusts (which, among other things, helps penetration and improves lethality) while the inner portion remains solid enough to penetrate the armor. The end result is a dead tank, and several kilograms of toxic dust.

So, while the spreading about of long lasting, carcinogenic toxic waste wasn't the intended consequence, it _did_ happen.

"Cluster munitions are surface laid, making it much easier to clear the unex. Furthermore the US keeps good track of where we put our minefields, unlike other nations like bosnia who just place them anywhere and do not create a minefield card to locate them later."

During OIF 1, we got sent to Fallujah in June. The base we occupied _still_ had unexploded scatmines everywhere, weeks after they all _should_ have detonated. It took EOD several weeks more for them to get around to clearing them out, and this was where we lived. Imagine what it's like in those areas where US troops haven't set foot in at all during the last two years?

Anonymous said...

Don't know how DU works, do you? It's useful for munitions because of its high density and pyrophoric nature

So you are saying that we are still using it after all of the armored targets are gone?

Wouldn't that be a waste of resources? You should notify your chain of command immediately!

Mike Crichton said...

"So you are saying that we are still using it after all of the armored targets are gone?"

Who said all the armored targets are gone? It works just fine against fortified buildings too. IIRC, last time DU munitions were used was last november, in Fallujah. I could be wrong. Even if I am, the toxic dust from Gulf War one is still sitting around, causing cancer in adults and mutations in children. In a better world, there'd be hordes of super-powered Iraqi teenagers running around; in this one, sadly, the mutations are far less pleasent.

Anonymous said...

Who said all the armored targets are gone? It works just fine against fortified buildings too.

The .50 cal lead ball ammo will work just as well to punch holes through most anything. If we are still using DU, you should contact someone in your chain of command and register a complaint.

Tell them you don't want your buddies or yourself going home with "Iraq War Syndrome". If they don't listen, take your complaint all the way up the chain to the IG.

This is a much more productive course than just posting it here, it will help soldiers & the people of Iraq.

Don't forget to let us know how it works out.

MIke Crichton said...

If this is the same anonymous blowhard, your display of false concern is very touching. No, really. If you're a different anonymous poster, for "Bob"s sake, sign _something_ for your name, how hard is that?

Anonymous said...

You must be one of those guys that joined up for the benefits. If you think you're experiencing a pride deficit now, just think how you'll be feeling about yourself in thirty years.

Anonymous said...

If this is the same anonymous blowhard, your display of false concern is very touching.

I think it was very sound advice, or would you rather just complain and whine about it?

Mike Crichton said...

AnonyWimp: This isn't whining, this is rueful bitching. There's a world of difference, though I don't expect a civilian chickenhawk like you can tell the difference.

Other AnonyWimp: I joined up out of patriotism, a desire to defend our great nation and the freedom-loving, decent people thereof. Imagine my sadness when I realized that doing so also meant I had to defend jackoffs like you.

Snag said...

Mike,
..."for "Bob"s sake"...
Can I assume this is the same "Bob" of the J.R. Dobbs type. The high salesman of all and everything?
I wish you as much slack as you can carry and then some.

Mike Crichton said...

Snag: Of Course. There is no "Bob" but "Bob", and "Bob" is the "Bob" of "Bob"! Bismi "Bob" Al Ghadban Al Ghareeb!

Anonymous said...

whining, rueful bitching, it's all the same.

your buddy
"Bob"

Mike Crichton said...

You don't even know who "Bob" is, and you're not fit to snort the ashes from "his" Holy 'Frop Pipe. I've seen better trollery from children on Harry Potter boards. D-, schmuck.

Anonymous said...

Your still whining.

"BOB"

Terrible said...

No honor there at all. Except in the minds of a few madmen in Washington.

Wael said...

To Anonymous "Bob" or "Bob" wannabe,

You said:
"However, the whole people of Japan were ready to fight the US street by street. "

Says who? did the US WWII propaganda machine interview the thousands of Japanese babies and toddlers who died this terrible death and reach that conclusion?

It is truly shocking how simple it is to justify the slaughter of civilians. Following your logic, one could also conclude that the 911 perpetratrors were right to do wat they did since US civilians are also willing to fight to death any invader.

The rest of us, we tend to think that Japanese civilians are no less worthy of life than their american counterparts.

Hurria said...

"the whole people of Japan were ready to fight the US street by street. "

Yeah. And Iraq was filled with WMD's, and Saddam and Usama bin Laden were best buddies.

MIke Crichton said...

Anonywimp: You're still stupid. I'll be cheerful tomorrow.

Wael: Even assuming there wasn't significant civilian resistance, a land invasion of Japan would still have killed millions. In this case, nuking 2 cities was the lesser evil.

AnonoBob said...

I might be Dumb but I ain't Stupid.

"However, the whole people of Japan were ready to fight the US street by street. "

The Japs said so themselves, just like the Iraqi's did in a 60 minutes episode before the invasion.
Thats when the Liberals were trying to drum up some anti war support, and they had those hollywood types go over there to form an human Iraqi Shield.

Your Pal,
AnonoBob

Snag said...

"...hollywood types...human Iraqi Shield"
Ok...now that's just bizzare.

"Go away kid, you're buggin' me." - Foghorn Leghorn said to the chickenhawk

Wael said...

"Even assuming there wasn't significant civilian resistance, a land invasion of Japan would still have killed millions. In this case, nuking 2 cities was the lesser evil."

You are right. They are both evils.
However, international law ,
the Geneva convention, and common sense forbids the intentional killing of civilians.
That is the difference.

Dropping a nuke on a whole city without warning certainly qualifies as the deliberate killing of civilians.
How you morally justify it(pressuring Japan's government to surrender quicker) will not change the reality that it was wrong, the same way Al-QAIDA is wrong for indiscriminately murdering civilians as a way to also pressure/punish their governments.

Mike Crichton said...

Wael: Would you have preferred we didn't force Japan to surrender at all? We should have left the Imperialists in power to plot their next wave of atrocities? Imperialists, I might add, whose acts of genocide toward civilian populations far outstripped those of their Nazi allies.

Anonywimp: You can't assume that the proclamations of a dictator accurately reflect the true feelings of their subjects. That's why they're called dictators.

Wael said...

mike: as much as I understand your point, it does not change reality: just because we believe we are good and they are evil does not give us the right to massacre their civilian population, no matter what the alternative.
There should be boundaries that the civilized world should not cross. We can't claim superior morality unless our actions reflect our belief system. How would we be any different otherwise?

Mike Crichton said...

Our actions in WW2 did reflect our belief system. We never massacred surrendered civilian populations, for one. Those civilian areas that we bombed were manufacturing and administrative centers, and other war-supporting infrastructures. Under the rules of war circa 1945, they were legitimate targets, therefore we didn't commit any crimes. The Japanese and the Germans DID, however. Trying to say that we are "just as bad" as regimes that commited systematic and open genocide is ludicrous. Would you really want to live in a world where we hadn't defeated the Axis?

AnonoBOB said...

Mike, Now you sound like a conservative. But at least your RIGHT. Get it, Right....

Anyhow, The nice guy always finishes last. You have to meet the enemy, with enough force to hurt them more than they can you, or you may as well not fight at all. We don't or shouldn't claim to be of superior morality. That idea came out of VietNam when we let politicians try to fight the war. The government knew the NVA were using supply routes in Cambodia. And the politicians said publicly that we could beat them without trying to cut those routes off, that we would keep the fight in VietNam. The Brass protested, but the politicians got their way. You know the rest.

"...hollywood types...human Iraqi Shield"
"It's Dessspicable that you didn't know about this" - Daffy said to Snaggletooth

Hurria said...

"You have to meet the enemy, with enough force to hurt them more than they can you"

It looks like the Iraqi resistance is doing a pretty good job of that so far. :)

Mike Crichton said...

Anonyloser: I'd be happy to be a "right" winger, if only the Republican party would get rid of their idiotic anti-gay, anti-women, anti-minority and anti-science biases.

Again, you're half right. If you're not willing to fight to the death, you shouldn't fight at all. If we're to be the 'good guys', we can only do that when the alternative is so bad that war-to-the-knife is justified. In this case, it wasn't, so we shouldn't have invaded Iraq at all.

BTW, i you declare that you're fighting a "war of liberation", that implies that once you've ousted the current regime, you HAVE TO ABIDE by the will of the 'liberated' people, or else you're shown to be a liar. Since the Iraqi people don't really want us here any more, we are obliged, BY OUR OWN PUBLICALLY STATED CONVICTIONS, to leave as quickly as possible.

AnonoBob said...

Hurria,

Your resistance would do better to take positions in, and help develope the new Iraq government. Then your calls for the occupation to end would carry more weight with the US, UN, and the rest of the world. Then as soon as your government is up and running the US will have to abide by the will of the Liberated people and leave as Mike "Cry-a-Ton" has stated.

But until you have a working government that represents all of your people it would be irresponsible for any liberating nation to leave.

Do you still believe resistance is a faster way to end occupation?

Hurria said...

"Your resistance"

I stop reading after seeing this kind of stupid reference. There is no such thing as "my resistance". I do not possess or claim a resistance, I have never possessed or claimed a resistance, and it is extremely unlikely that I will very possess or claim a resistance at any time in the future,

AnonoBob said...

Hurria,
OK Then...

THE Iraqi resistance would do better to take positions in, and help develope the new Iraq government. Then the calls for the occupation to end would carry more weight with the US, UN, and the rest of the world. Then as soon as The Iraqi government is up and running the US will have to abide by the will of the Liberated people and leave as Mike "Cry-a-Ton" has stated.

But until Iraq has a working government that represents all of its people, it would be irresponsible for any liberating nation to leave.

Do YOU still believe resistance is a faster way to end occupation?

AnonoBob said...

Mike Cry-A-Thon,

All Conservatives are not neccessarily Republican. All Republicans are not neccessarily Conservative.

Likewise they are not neccessarily:
anti-gay,
anti-women,
anti-minority, or,
anti-science biased
Either.

The media would have you believe otherwise.

Hurria said...

"i you declare that you're fighting a "war of liberation", that implies that once you've ousted the current regime, you HAVE TO ABIDE by the will of the 'liberated' people, or else you're shown to be a liar."

"We dominate the scene and we will continue to impose our will on this country." L. Paul Bremer III, July, 2003.

That pretty much says it all.

AnonoBob said...

I am a Conservative 1st then a Republican 2nd.
I am Not:
anti-gay,
anti-women,
anti-minority, or,
anti-science biased (I Love Science, the Responsible, Sensible Science Though)

I am smart enough to admit that I'm not always right.
"True Genius Understands It's Own Stupidity" - Socrates.
I propose we start a conservative party, There's room for you come on over. Otherwise, When in doubt ask before you Bash.

AnonoBob said...

Hurria,

That quote is 2 years old, & until you have a working government that can defend itself, it would be irresponsible for the US to leave now. But you will have that government Soon, This August 15 Iraq is scheduled to ratify its new constitution. I just hope that it will be fair for all Iraqi's, especially the women, as mentioned in this article: http://www.itp.net/business/features/details.php?id=3024&category=

Hurria said...

Anonobob, I do not have the time or the patience to reply point by point to your ill informed nonsense except to remind you that the last thing the Americans have been interested in is self determination for Iraqis, and without self determination there is no freedom at all. They did everything they could to thwart Iraqis' efforts toward self determination even at the local level, and to keep Iraqis out of any decision making or real participation about the future of the country. It was only when they were backed into a corner that they finally agreed to permit something they could label an "election", and even that was designed by the Americans for the Americans. When Bremer made that statement I quoted he was speaking the truth.

As for the so-called "constitution" that is yet another example of the Americans imposing their will on the Iraqis to the extent they can manage it given the current circumstances. And no, it will not be fair to all Iraqis, and in particular it is a huge leap backward for women compared to the previous constitution. It is a bad joke, and the so-called "government" is a bad joke.

For your information, those Iraqis who were foolish enough to be optimistic about this "government" began to lose confidence in it within weeks, and now , according to a recent poll, are overwhelmingly negative on every question, even though the poll questions were designed for the most favourable results, and the sample was somewhat skewed.

The primary direct and indirect source of violence in Iraq continues to be the American presence. American forces with their deadly and destructive war machines still commit the majority and greatest magnitude of the violence, and the overwhelming majority of violence from the so-called "insurgency" is directed against occupation forces and other elements and agents of the occupation. The fact that this does not get publicized in the U.S. does not change the reality except in the minds of Americans who will not look past the nightly news for information.

Violence would be drastically reduced if the occupation were ended. And I do not just mean a "drawdown" leaving troops in those permanent bases you are building. I mean completely removing all the occupation forces, vacating the "mega-embassy", sending home all the "security" and "reconstruction" contractors and leaving Iraq completely to Iraqis to sort out. Later Iraqis can decide what kind of relation - if any - to have with the U.S. For many of us it will take a very long time before we will want to see any official relations at all, though American people are as always welcome.

Hurria said...

Regarding the aforementioned poll, the overwhelming majority of respondents rated the so-called government "bad" in every one of the five categories addressed:

Security and combating terrorism-- 67%
Combating Corruption-- 74%
Resolving the problem of electricity-- 90%
Resolving the problem of unemployment-- 77%
Timetable for withdrawal of the multinational forces-- 68%

Actually, the primary concerns of the "government" so far has been jockying for power within the "government" and doing whatever it takes to keep the Americans happy. Looking after the things that are important to the people they supposedly represent is not even on the list.

Anonymous said...

"Hurria said..."

"Anonobob, I do not have the time or the patience to reply"

Are you getting tired?

Tyler said...

Kates comment,
"Sadly, too, there are many Americans who feel no remorse whatsoever over the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, nor the nightmare of the threat of nuclear holocaust that those bombings have left with us."


It saved hundreds of thousand lives on both sides from invading mainland Japan. Casualties were predicted to be enormous. Many of those around us would not be here if we invaded Japan.

Hurria said...

"It saved hundreds of thousand lives on both sides from invading mainland Japan."

That is pure speculation.

Anonymous said...

Hurria said...

"That is pure speculation."

No its not!

Hurria said...

Ummm - yes, it is. There is no way of knowing what would have happened had mainland Japan been invaded, and in fact there is evidence that it would not have been necessary. When there is no way of knowing 1. Whether something would have taken place, or 2. What would have happened had it taken place, anyone who claims that this or that would have happened is engaging in pure speculation.

Anonymous said...

No it's not! Anyone who's been in the military would know a ground war is hard to fight. especially against a warrior culture.

But then your not a soldier, Are You?

Onward Muslim Soldier!

Anonymous said...

above anon..

i puked after you questioned Zach..

Anonymous said...

Manifest Destiny dictates a white-man’s prophecy - White-man’s world, white-man’s Apocolypse

Austrian Sigmund Freud is known as the father of psychoanalysis, yet people have (mental) health problems because of their disfavor, illustrating the preditory purpose of this discipline, this individual.
These people.
Of course Hitler was Austrian. Glock, maker of the semi-automatic gun favored by black street gangs such as the Bloods and the Crips, is Austrian.
RedBull Energy drink, Buwdeiser both Austrian.

The Holocaust was foreshadowing, yet another example of the Jews sacrificing to help the disfavored::::
1. 1492 exodus from Spain. Spain became evil - financed Columbus, initiated missionaries, USA (dumping ground of disfavored victimized by god), etc.
2. Spread throughout Europe as clue to Christians worshipping a false god.
3. “Quasi-Holocaust claim” contradicting boss.
4. 5. 6. 7. etc. etc. etc.
The Apocalypse (or an Apocalyptic event) will be initiated by an Austrian. When the national referendum to allow foreign-born individuals to run for president is introduced I recommend you DEFY and vote NO!! In the years prior to this vote the gods will send POWERFUL clues suggesting the IMPORTANCE OF DEFIANCE.

It will be the Koreans (instead of Nazis). There won’t even be any invasion:::They gods will scapegoat them telepathically::::
Black people like the ones who terrorized Korean businesses during the 1992 riots in California will be executed. I have personal reinforcing evidence:::::
This time the holocaust will be black.
Don’t be suprised if reparations are dispersed shortly after the black holocaust, capturing those whom escaped their wrath.

——————————————————————

Italy’s boot is a clue showing the god’s intent with the Romans AND their active involvement::The gods imparted wisdom in the Bible.
Oshkosh is a clue just as Lake Michigan and Green Bay are clues. It is the ejaculate clue:::Life springs forth from this region.
Expect your traditional Second Coming of Christ to come from the region. Consistant with the possibility of matrilinial lineage it may be the mother’s family from the Lake Winnebago area fulfilling some “Manifest Destiny” bullshit theater::::You see Manifest Destiny all around you (corporate).
Manifest Destiny dictates a white-man’s prophecy:::::White-man’s world, white-man’s Apocolypse.

This isn’t about reals and clones. This is about the brains and the brain-less:::The brain-less are people whose families have been OUT FOR GENERATIONS, families lucky enough to avoid this disturbing age and its accompanying abuses.
This is the key which unlocks the god’s puzzle.

————————————————————————

The Simpsons offered many clues to the disfavored, not the least of which ARE the frequent references to “pack/mob mentality”.

ANYTIME you feel “peaked”, experience craving or ANY thought disturbance where you want or like something irrationally (ex:::Halloween, Harley Davidson (theme:::Halloween colors), Dale Earnhardt) IT IS THEM TRYING TO HURT YOU!!!!!! “Magic” is used EXCLUSIVELY to hurt the disfavor:::The fuel of disfunction::::::addiction, homosexuality, crack babies.
In times past when gods felt more generous they employed their powers to help the disfavored (geographical clues, Moses’s miracles), but as time went on the gods only used their power to HURT the disfavored (1906, boss, disturbing use of “magic”).
There are subtle (sub)conscious tactics they can employ with the computer to make you think as if you are cooperating when they really are pushing you into your offense.

People were pushed into having gay experiences because their parents were sell-out whores.
People were pushed into being sell-out whores because their parents sold their blood line down the river in the early 20th century.
People were pushed into selling their blood line down the river because they didn’t pray.
Man hasn’t prayed to god for thousands of years but we have to pay in this manner because we have the unenviable distinction of living in this day and age, this heightened standard justified with the 20th century life of comfort such as indoor plumbing, refidgeration, canned foods.

Women are the favored gender:::Those who understand what it means to be a woman are already halfway there.
The purpose of the masculinization of women of the last 40 years was to pave the way (justification) for The End, for it collectively brought mankind’s favor down.

——————————————————————-

HOW TO PRAY:::1. I’m sorry for what I’ve done wrong. 2. I don’t want to sccumb to temptation and make any more mistakes. 3. I want to fix my problems. 4. Please don’t hurt me.

We will ALL be held to the responsibilities entrusted to us, no matter what temptations contradict this.

If you don’t do the right thing you’re going to do the wrong thing, and the right thing to do is to ACTIVELY fix your problems and pursue the favor of the gods.
The gods imparted wisdom in the Bible to help teach people the right way to live:::Tempation will be used to test you. You have to be willing to tell them “No.” If you “think right” you may envoke their mercy.
You will never get off Planet Earth unless you are “thinking right”, so you should focus on it.
If you’re not working hard to fix your problems, if you don’t creatively work to get the hell off Earth then you will be consumed by it, by the reverse positioning-institutions they instilled as temptations::::popular culture, democracy, materialism.

I have put forth indisputable evidence, as you see above with the Jews. The gods will never admit any of it is true, ever. YOU HAVE TO DEFY!!!! They will lie to you up until bitter end::::This tactic will ensure they claim a HUGE percentage of the disfavored, for so many refuse to defy and this will ensure they don’t go.

—————————————————————–

My best adivce to you all would be understand what I say is true then WITHDRAW, not only from this plethora of detail (for updating the disfavored is one way to distract AND you should never be so arrogant to think you are entitled to understand the god’s behavior) but also from this cancerous culture. Pursue the truth that you just learned and work hard to repair your relationship with the gods. Understand how these corrupt institutions (democracy, materialism/greed, education) affect your life and save what clues they will offer you for when you REALLY need them. Be very attentive and gracious, for you are counting on their generosity.
If you are good and decent and respectable you won’t want to hear about all this. If you do desire to hear more take it as a clue, for it is a symptom::::They are peaking you euphorically, and this “magic” is used to hurt the disfavored.
Understand how the corrupted INSTITUTIONS affect your life and make the appropriate changes. For example, they use democracy to justify instructing the computer to create a sense of empowerment. If you recognize this you are better able to overcome the damaging effects.
The gods will want to know who I helped and how they are doing. If people begin with my teachings they will be on a list that the gods will PERSONALLY look in on. The numbers of people who pursue the path immediatley after I illustrate it will be very small due to their minimization tactics, and they will be members of an elite group.
Remember::The gods only use their powers to hurt the disfavored, and everything involved in this Situation are all good examples. Please let me remind you the Jews sacrificed, illustrating to people that boss wasn’t going to happen, showing the world that all these popular culture elements associated with the Situaiton were the gods employing their powers to prey on the disfavored keping them captivated for over 30 years now.

————————————————————–

1. Corporate sourcing violently punished::::
They suggest the whole “sourcing” era, where it is positioned that their brain-less clones obtained product from China and other Asian countries for the lowest possible price, will be punished violently if the gods elect to employ the “Asian invasion” script::::
One of the reasons it was so important to get out before 1980 (important to get out before the end of each 20-year war-revelry cycle - 1960, 1980, 2000, 2020, etc).

2. Deception of Southern rednecks to blame for Republican control:::::
Republicans, party of preditory disfavored, keep guns available. Easy gun availablility is an “open door” for the gods, a tool used to prey on the disfavored.
Republicans, party of preditory disfavored, gave you the distraction that was the Clinton impeachment theater 1998.
Republican loyalty is why noone cares that rednecks are set up for the slaughter.
Democrats good. Liberalism evil.

Kosher is a favor bestowed upon the Jews. The South eats LOTS of pork and there is an oyster bar on every corner:::::It’s like liquor stores in the ghetto.
The gods have quite a sophisticated taste for irony:::::The Jew takes boss by calling in the Quasi-Holocaust claim.

The gods got rid of the retarded woman who lived across the street, prior to the fall of 2006 so their handiwork wouldn’t stare them in the face while there was so much attention.
The gods took similar evansive manuvers w/ bi-racial so they could continue using this open door to victimize the disfavored.

American space tourist returned after 13 days in space::::”The first thing he noticed about Earth is…the smell.” They don’t want people coming back. They WILL do things like this:::It’s intent is to prevent people from returning, either for favorite expeiences, sports, etc. and proof my Situation had to fail:::It woud have commanded much attention from the other planets.

Bill Clinton wasn’t impeached because he lied.
Bill Clinton wasn’t impeached because he was orally copulated.
Bill Clinton was impeached because it was 1998.
It was end of 20-year war-revelry cycle distraction theater, of which there are MANY examples. Brought to you by the party of the preditory disfavored, the Republican party.

Apex of irony in the Situaiton:::Jew calls in Quasi-Holocaust claim and takes boss, stoking the flames of anti-Semitism among blacks in the crucial years before the black holocaust