Friday, August 19, 2005

Special Forces

A couple of days ago I was talking to 2 U.S. Special Forces Soldiers and I was very surprised to find that they thought that we were loosing over here in Iraq and that it would take, "10, 20, 30 years until we are done here."

One of the SF soldiers told me that he is so sick of coming over here that he will do anything when he gets home just so he doesn't have to come back over here.

Even our most elite troops are seeing the grim reality that we have here in Iraq. Why can't you see it too America?

93 comments:

Anonymous said...

Mixed reports:

http://strengthandhonor.typepad.com/captaink/2005/08/the_new_job_1.html

-tmg

quilter-12 said...

Zach,
We do see it here, the ones of us that have a personal involement... the rest for the most part hide the heads in the sand and go on with their lives....I have 2 in the military...one in the Navy and one in the Army...my Army son will be deployed soon. I live in a non military town and I believe there are some people that think the war is over....out of sight out of mind sort of thing...

I do not believe in the war...I want all the troops to come home...I do not want my 18 year old son over there for all the reasons you have wriiten about in the last few weeks. I will support him and all the other troops as long you are there....I want this maddness to end.

So many people think you have to support the war to be able to support the troops...different as night and day.

Just keeping talking Zach...someone in the last post said the talking doesn't make rice...but you can't know how to make rice unless someone tells you how or you see how to make it for yourself....I wish there was truthful reporting from over there...raw and to the point...make this country know we are at war and it has to end. I don't want to bury my son.

Stay safe Zach....

The Seriously Ill said...

It has always been my experience that SF troops are more intelligent and more aware of the big picture than most troops. They also live in a world where all opinions count regardless of rank.

Anonymous said...

Even our most elite troops are seeing the grim reality that we have here in Iraq. Why can't you see it too America?

I don't know.

Alice Marshall

Snag said...

I agree with Serious. The SF guys I worked with seemed more in touch with the real nature of war...a lot less of the hua and more straight up professional and realistic.

Underdog said...

Reality? Don't you remember? That's cliche' man. If you want a little relief from reality, you should visit http://www.venganza.org/
You might appreciate the humor and maybe even accept the FSM into your heart.

Seriously, I get sick to my stomach every day about this war. Logic does not prevail ... yet.
Maybe soon, we're trying.

ariadne said...

There are a lot of us who see it. There's a mother named Cindy Sheehan who lost a son in Iraq who's been camped out at Bush's Crawford estate his whole, 5-week vacation. Many anti-war activists have joined her. However, people have been tearing her apart in the media, calling her a traitor, an attention whore, etc. Bush refuses to meet with her, but he has just broken Reagan's all time record for most vacation days during a presidency:
http://thedailypick.blogspot.com/2005/08/congratulations-president-bush-you.html

It's disgusting. But the "bring the troops home" movement may well be gaining strength.

More on Sheehan:
http://crawfordupdate.blogspot.com/

Kate said...

Sadly, I'm hearing the same thing from my husband in Afghanistan who's working with SF forces now. I guess this is what happens when wars are waged on ideology and on the cheap. We never fully committed to Afghanistan and it shows. And we all know about Iraq...

Take care, Zach. I'm thinking about you and your family --

Lauren said...

I don't think Zach means other soldiers don't have a clue about the war, I think he means Americans don't have a clue, ie, Bush, O'Reilly, and other idiot republicans

Anonymous said...

It looks like 'America' is starting to see it too, Zach.
I hope it will also 'act'.

And I definitely do hope you'll be back in the States soon.
You have a nice family, so you should return to them, safe and sound.

Let the Chickenhawks do their dirty work themselves.

democracyinalbany said...

This week Republican Senator Chuck Hagel said we need to get the troops out. Democratic Senator Russ Fiengold said the same thing. The majority of the American public says the same thing. its the people in the white house that started this war who refuse to address the reality of it.

Hurria said...

But what do they really mean by "get the troops out"? Unless they mean a complete removal of all forces, and of all official American presence in Iraq there is no point in it.

beverly said...

Hi Zach,
I hope you never feel as if you are alone in your world there. As you can tell, with all the responses you get after your writings, a large number of us support you. I wish we could find the way to make it all go away. The best we can do is respond to your writings, support Cindy Sheehan and others who dare to speak out. Those who pray, will pray. I do. I have candles lit for you. You are an inspiration like no other. It is because of people like you, that I do the work I do; working with veterans. By the way, when I talk to the vets here, they all support you.
Luv.........beverly

Ted Turner said...

Hurria,

One of your countrymen "The Messopotamian" doesn't believe your rhetoric that the US should be leaving ASAP.

Another of your countrymen "Hammorabi" knows there is in fact a flow of insurgents into Iraq.

The truth is out there, for those willing to find it. Unless of course they only read your postings. Then they might of course mistake what you say as the truth. When in reality you are just another Iraqi with an opinion, that isn't even in the mainstream of thought on the issues.

Hurria said...

Dear Ted Turner,

Wow, congratulations! You managed to find two whole blogs written by people who claim to be Iraqis, and who are well known as enthusiastic war cheerleaders who consistently parrot Bush administration propaganda. Keep on trying - you might manage to find a third if you work at it hard enough.

Ted Turner said...

Hurria,

You claim to be an Iraqi.
Why should I believe you any more than them??? You won't even let us see your profile! Not even a fake one at that!

There are many more Iraqi bloggers here Bloggers For Freedom links to American & Iraqi bloggers

Hurria said...

Ted Turner,

You are free to believe whatever you like about me or about anything else for that matter.

I do not have a profile, and I have no interest or reason in producing a fake one.

joney said...

Zach,

Thank you for your blog. My brother just left for his second tour over there. I am an American that does support our troops with all I have. I was a troop at one time. I do not believe we should be over there either. I think Americans are waking up and soon you will see some more pressure to pull out. We can only pray and speak up every chance we have. (oh yeah and getting rid of Bush would not hurt either)


Joney

Terrible said...

Having had the pleasure of being able to train with the Special Forces Group Europe back in the '80s I definitly agree with seriously ill and snag about their intellegence and knowledge of the 'big picture'. They have to have that in order to do the mission that they do. Because of that I've suspected for quite some time that they would be some of the first to come out strongly against this administrations idiotic war mongering. Thanks Zack for continueing to help keep us informed back here. Stay safe and peace be with you.

Kristen said...

Arg!!! Enough already! Go start your own blog to use for debates! I'm not trying to say your arguments aren't valid and shouldn't be heard, but for cryin out loud, this is the third blog entry you've cluttered with your bickering! Sorry if this upsets anyone, but I don't come to Zach's blog to read arguments about whether Israelis or Palestinians threw the first stone. Please quit clogging up the comments board!

Hurria said...

So, Kristin, perhaps you should post somewhere your guidelines for what constitutes an appropriate comment for this blog. Without any such guidelines, how can you expect people to limit their comments only to what you come here to read?

Kristen said...

Don't be a bitch Hurria. You know exactly what I mean. You are posting comments that have NO relevancy to the topic you are responding to. I am merely trying to prevent it from happening again by bringing it to your attention. If you can voice your opinion, so can I.

Hurria said...

Kristen, I am sorry to see that you feel a need to use that kind of rude language.

Tyler said...

I hear many soldiers saying they think were winning in Iraq. It just depends who you talk to.

For some good reports go to
michaelyon.blogspot.com
he tells what you would never hear from the msm.

Kristen said...

I'm sorry that your inability to allow someone to post a comment without responding in a sarcastic tone has warranted the use "rude language". Once again, apparantly you've missed the message all together. I love when you put on your selective reading goggles.
So to make sure you don't miss it this time, I'll repeat myself without the use of "rude language"
You are posting comments that have NO relevancy to the topic you are responding to. I am merely trying to prevent it from happening again by bringing it to your attention. If you can voice your opinion, so can I.

franksinzaz said...

quilter 12

please sir, kindly advise your son to ask himself if he wants to go to a foreign country, invade and occupy it, and kill the locals. its very simple. it might start him thinking if he is capable of killing any human anywhere. then if he could plant gardens, vegetables, flowers. i dunno..........

after that, it's his decision. hug him and write him and pray for him and plant gardens and flowers for him for when he returns.........

frankinzaz said...

kristin and hurria,

madre miA.

wonderful really to be able to interact with 2 people form such differnet viewpoints. what a GAS¡

when i happened upon this blog, i'd hoped the group was searching for future postive solutions. in between, there is always lots of conversation.

sargeant Zach has done a courageous thing, with this blog. ¿why? i dunno. but i like it. i want this guy to keep himself safe and healthy in body and soul, return to his wife and children and parents and live a long life planting trees and shrubs and gardens in his hometown.

f

Hurria said...

Kristen, I did not miss the point at all. The point was that you consider yourself justified in deciding and dictating to others what is and what is not appropriate to post in the comment section of this blog, based on what Kristen does and does not come here to read. It appears clear that you believe that this comment section is all about what Kristen comes here to read, and you consider that the contents of this comment section should be limited to that. I simply suggested that you should post guidelines so that we all know what is and is not within Kristen's Rules for What to Post in This Comment Section.

On the other hand, as Zach is the owner of this blog, perhaps it is up to him to post guidelines for appropriate topics and demeanor, if he wishes to set limits and guidelines. Since he has not until now done so it is quite reasonable for people to post whatever comments come to mind, and to respond to others' comments even though they may differ from the topic of Zach's post.

Whatever they post here people should always, of course, remain civil, and avoid name calling and the use of foul language.

Kristen said...

I was politely asking you to keep comments on a post limited to the post content. I was not dictating ANYTHING. If you have the right to post your opinion about everything, and you do quite often no matter how many times you repeat yourself, then so do I. Instead of whining about how I'm trying to censor YOU, think about how you're trying to censor me. I have just as much right as you do to post my opinions and thoughts on this blog, even if I'm not from Iraq! Believe it or not, this is not Hurria's Blog where Hurria can post whatever she wants all the time. Some people get tired of reading comments that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the post you're commenting on. I was merely suggesting that if you want to debate about something that is in NO WAY relevant to the post you are commenting on, maybe you should create your own blog, since apparently you have SO much time to come on here and respond to every little thing!
And remember, YOU got snippy first. I feel I was very justified in describing your behavior in the way I felt appropriate. If you took offense, leave. So much for kind and courteous Hurria, huh? You blew that cover the first time you opened up the can of bitter sarcasm oh so many posts ago. You played the "poor me" card one too many times and now you're upset when people call you on it. So now you've changed your image and become the queen of sarcasm, berating posters left and right because they obviously aren't as witty or intelligent and couldn't be remotely close to being worthy of your time because they aren't from Iraq. I've kept my mouth shut out of respect for a long time. I even tried to get along with you, but your comment says it all. I am Hurria, queen of all relevant comments. If anyone questions me, I shall lash out and then try to go back to playing the sweet and innocent card. Not this time. But oh, let me guess, your next post in response to this one will be "I'm sorry you feel this way" or something of that nature to make you look like an angel and me look like scum. Then the next time someone comments in a way that isn't to your liking, you'll do the same thing. Berate them and then go back to being the overly polite fake that you are.
And how dare you bring Zach into this?!?!?!? As if you even know him! If you did, maybe you would care about what his wife thinks of what you say about him and the rest of our troops. But because he has so graciously let you continue to put him and the rest of America down, you think all is well. Maybe you should thank his wife for dropping the issue!
Sorry Tara and Zach. It wasn't my place to bring that up at all, but she pushed my buttons for the last time.

Hurria said...

First, Kristen, your tone was not one of "polite asking", nor was the content of your remarks. "Bossy" is one of the kinder words that come to mind. What you were clearly saying was "either post what I want you do post or go away". From what I know of American culture, which is quite a lot, that is not even "polite asking" there. In Iraqi culture, as you should know if you are any kind of linguist, it is extremely rude - downright nasty even.

Second, I do not "whine" and I was doing so in this instance, nor have I suggested that you were attempting to censor me, although now that I think about it, that is exactly what you are doing when you tell someone to post what you want to hear or shut up.

Third, who are you claiming has ever tried to censored you? I certainly never have, nor have I ever remotely suggested that you should not post anything you like here any time you like. After all, I do not own this blog, and it is not my business to tell others not to post here or what they may and may not poast. That is entirely Zach's prerogative, and not mine - or yours, for that matter.

You on the other hand have repeatedly told me to go away, shut up, get my own blog, etc., when you did not care for what I posted, and of course you did so again today in your original post.

Fourth, every one of my posts on this page was a response to something posted by someone else, as have been all of my posts on this site. I did not initiate anything, and as far as I know I have never initiated any off-topic discussion. It is not my habit to do that anywhere. So, why are you singling me out? What about democracyinalbany to whom I was directly and specifically responding in my first post here? What about Ted Turner, to whom my other posts were responses? No problems with them, just with me? Gee, I wonder why.

Or is it just that you want me to be a good little Iraqi and speak only when spoken to, and say only what you want to hear from me. Don't count on it. I am not one of your subserviant Uncle Ahmads who will bow to your supposed authority and say only what you want me to say. I never have been, and never will be.

Fifth, I have never once played the "poor me" card. It is not in my deck.

I have said this before, and I will say it again. This is an open forum. I will continue to say what I like when I like to whom I like and in the manner I like here as long as Zach, the owner of this blog, allows me to do so. On the day he posts guidelines for the comment section, I will do my best to follow those guidelines, and on the day he asks me to cease posting here, I will respectfully do so. In the mean time, I invite - no urge - you that if you do not like what I have to say, simply save yourself the aggravation of reading it by skipping over my posts.

Kristen said...

How was my post any more disrespectful than your response? If you go back and re-read my original post, I didn't direct it towards you individually. No where in there did I say your name. You just happened to be the only one to respond. Ted is either at work or just didn't care to comment. But you are always sticking your holier-than-thou little nose into everything and couldn't resist drawing me into an argument. Who can blame you? Judging by the amount of posts you leave daily, you obviously have nothing better to do than sit on your butt and argue with people. If you took my post the wrong way then that is your problem. But I never made the racially derogatory comments you just left in regards to yourself by implying that you are in any way subservient to an American so don't you DARE put words in my mouth! Its insulting to both of us that you even twisted it that way! Oh wait, but if I was you, I would have stopped reading at that point because I shouldn't entertain the idea of rascism.
I never told you to quit posting or what to say in your posts. I personally would appreciate it if you could keep your responses limited to the post content. And you're right, its not just you doing it. But then again I never said it was. In your own self centered mind you twisted it that way. Not everything is a personal attack on your character, but we bring in the poor me card once again.
If you know anything about American culture you would know that your first comment was an indirect way of trying to censor me by indirectly telling me that my opinion isn't wanted, but I guess you didn't pick up on your own tone. Who's living in a delusion now?
And if you live by the rules that you can say whatever you want and voice your opinion, no matter how played out it may be, then so shall I. And what I MEANT when I said you should get your own blog is that if you want to debate something of no relevance, then post it on your blog. That was not a request that you stop posting here. You really don't get it do you?
And by the way, its hard to skip over your comments when you fill 50% of the board. And I also see the irony of me clogging the board with unrelated posts.

Anonymous said...

Kristen,

As far as I can determine Hurria has every right to bring Zach into this. After all, it is his blog and it is his perogative if he wishes to establish particular guidelines.

In my view, your comments to Hurria are mean spirited and appear to be motivated by anger and frustration.

I have learned from Hurria's comments. Her insights have value and show serious thought and study. U.S. politicians and citizens could learn a good deal from her critique of U.S. policies.

It is all too clear that the U.S. invaded another country based upon false premises. The U.S. administration lied about weapons of mass destruction. Officials lied about ties between Hussein and Al-Qaida. (The U.S. under Reagan was a major Al-Quaida supporter; Reagan also pressured King Fahd to give financial support to Bin-Laden. Iraq never had such ties.) Tens and tens of thousands of people have died because of the invasion and continued occuption. Iraqis have been tortured in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. Cities have been bombed by Americans in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. Iraqi hospitals, medical workers, and ambulances have been attacked by Americans in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. As far as I can see, Bush has commited impeachable crimes.

Zach's discussion with U.S. special forces gives an indication of how present U.S. policies have gone badly, badly wrong (in my view from a human rights perspective, but as we can see, even on a strategic and tactical level).

I'm interested in hearing Hurria, Zach and others who can help Americans understand what is happening in Iraq.

Stephan

Terrible said...

WELL!!!!! kristen's irony sure has taken this discussion a long way from talking about SF soliers speaking the truth.

Terrible said...

soldiers

Kristen said...

Stephen, my comments only became mean spirited after she felt the need to sarcastically shoot down my request for a more post-related comment. I try to value her posts and insights as they are very well researched, but the second she starts berating other poster's opinions, choice of words( need I bring up that she twisted the phrase with all due respect, to with little or no respect, and that she has repeatedly said that she wouldn't read other poster's comments) I lost all interest in her opinions. Why should I care about someone else's view when they can't even show the slightest bit of respect for one that differs from their own? And it has become apparant that she has done the same to me.
And terrible, I agree, lets get back to the topic at hand.

Anonymous said...

CAT FIGHT!!!!

Hurria said...

Kristen, I have said all I have to say to you, and am not interested in any more of your childish, foot stamping rants. If you are not prepared to deal with an uppity Iraqi woman who is not afraid to speak her mind then that is not my problem.

Anonymous said...

Welcome back to 1967, folks. The year that people began to see Vietnam as a fiasco. For Vietraq, the year will be 2005.
-roamer in mich

Josh said...

I highly doubt Hurria is an Iraqi woman. It is probably a yuppie from the Village in NYC who can *sympathise with the Iraqis*

Anonymous said...

Worse yet, how can we trust any of this is real. Ever seen the Matrix?

Anonymous said...

Vox pop absurdum.Come home you are a danger to your fellow soldier

t3l3c0 said...

Hi
I am Jose, an university student from Spain, and I have discovered this weblog through internet, and I would like to say that you are doing an exceptional work in Iraq. I am sorry you have lost so many friends there and I hope you go home as soon as possible.
Bye friends

WildButterfly said...

WE DO see it...but all of the Bush supporters are chosing to bury their heads in the sand!! I will go to DC on Sept 24th to march and support all of you well deserving soldiers.....by trying to STOP THIS DAMN WAR!!!!!! Take care of yourself!!! From a veteran!!

Daniel said...

Hurria, do you have your own blog? I think you would get a lot more acclaim if you could have your own site. You're obviously not afraid to fend of the most ferocious insults, and you could expand on issues of your choosing. I, for one, would be interested to link to it.

Jay Denari said...

Hi, Zach & all,

ted turner wrote:
Another of your countrymen "Hammorabi" knows there is in fact a flow of insurgents into Iraq.

Ted, that's probably true... NOW. It wasn't when this started. The wingnuts from other countries see Iraq the same way they saw Afghanistan under Soviet occupation, and for the same reasons. That, however, doesn't mean they comprise more than a small part of the resistance, which is almost certainly comprised mostly of native Iraqis, who fight us for the same reason we'd fight anyone occupying the US -- they don't want someone else's morality shoved down their throats at gunpoint.

This, of course, is something the Bushites can't comprehend b/c they're so delusionally convinced their morality is the only right one. And, although they label it "christian," it's not; it's little more than the typical addict's view of the world as revolving around them and their wishes at the expense of everyone else's. Unlike most addicts, unfortunately, they have vast wealth and lots of guns with which to abuse others.

Hurria wrote: But what do they really mean by "get the troops out"? Unless they mean a complete removal of all forces, and of all official American presence in Iraq there is no point in it.

What do you think will happen after we leave, Hurria? (I ask b/c I really don't know; I've heard a bunch of different ideas that all seem to be based on selective interpretation of the facts.)

Anonymous said...

If you are not prepared to deal with an uppity Iraqi woman...

Hurria is about as "Iraqi" as I am.

Anonymous said...

Regardless of whether she is an Iraqi or not "she" gives an interesting perspective into issues and "she" definitely knows her facts. Keep up the good work Hurria. When does your blog come out?

Hurria said...

Daniel.

CC: Anonymous

Thanks, but I am not interested in aclaim. I have not started a blog of my own because I am not sure I want to make the commitment and take the responsibility of maintaining it, and it takes less effort and planning to respond to the things I read from other people. It is possible that with enough encouragement I might change my mind. On the other hand when someone tells me to get my own blog as a way of getting rid of me that encourages me to keep on doing just what I am doing. :)

Kristen said...

You've obviously misread me again. Surprise surprise! I should have expected it. I wasn't trying to get rid of you!

Tyler said...

Roamer in Michigan comments,
"Welcome back to 1967, folks. The year that people began to see Vietnam as a fiasco. For Vietraq, the year will be 2005."

Vietnam my ass.

Hurria said...

Jay Denario, you asked what will happen when you leave. I have actually addressed this here a couple of times. Certainly, not everything is predictable, but there are some things that are completely predictable:

1. All of the violence, klling, destruction, and human rights abuses committed by your forces - which constitutes the majority and greatest magnitude of violence, killing, destruction, and human rights abuse - will immediately cease.

2. All the violence that is directly instigated by and is committed in direct response to the actions of your forces will cease.

3. Most or all the violence that is committed by those engaged in legitimate resistance - which constitutes most of the so-called "insurgent" violence - will cease since there will be nothing left to resist.

4. Tolerance in the population for other forms of so-called "insurgent" violence will be significantly reduced.

5. Iraqi forces, who are now operating as proxy occupation forces under the command of the Americans, would be free to assume the responsibility of protecting the Iraqi people - something no one is doing now.

Whatever else happens I do not believe that it can possibly be worse than what we have seen in Iraq since you blasted your way into the country. The greatest destabilizing force in Iraq always was and remains your presence. How anyone can imagine for a moment that removing the greatest destabilizing force will destabilize the country is beyond imagining.

TED said...

Hurria,

WE ARE NOT LEAVING! UNTIL WE ARE DAMN READY & WILLING TO!

Tyler said...

Hurria,
You dont get it.

Anonymous said...

Hurria Said...,

"I am not one of your subserviant Uncle Ahmads"

This sounds like a familiar racial slurr, I Think. Who would have thought this would have come from an Iraqi?

Bret Wier

Hurria said...

Bret,

Who would think that an American Black person would ever use the term "Uncle Tom". Oh wait - they do it all the time, don't they?

Hurria said...

Bret,

Ohhhhhh! I get it! Iraqis aren't supposed to know anything about American culture! Like there are no Iraqis who have ever left the country and traveled to the west, and of course those backward savages would not ever have read or studied American literature, or history, or anything about American culture, or seen any films or meet any people that might give them knowledge and insights about American culture - of course not! As for the very idea that there might be Iraqis who have lived and been educated in the U.S. or elsewhere in the West, let alone had American friends - simply unimaginable!

Anonymous said...

I have been lurking this blog for some time now, and I think Kristen Is completely right on the issue of Hurria's posts. Perhaps stephan and terrible have not been on this blog long enough to notice.

Hurria is always butting in and piping up with this "Super, Ultimate, Omnipotent, Massive, Monumentous, Titanic, Gargantuan, Descimating, DoomsDay" of destruction. I don't hear the other Iraqi's that have blogs Describe it in this fashion. I think she is either a fake, or believes she has something to gain from all this tripe.

Bret Wier

Anonymous said...

Hurria,

Are you an American Black Person?
You are the one who used the phrase!

Bret W.

Anonymous said...

Hurria,

"those backward savages would not ever have read or studied American literature, or history"

If you have studied history, and are a traveled person of the world, then why does this war and its destruction seem so "Super, Ultimate, Omnipotent, Massive, Monumentous, Titanic, Gargantuan, Descimating, DoomsDay" ish?

If you have studied history you would know that there have been many wars that outclass this one by far in destruction.

Bret W.

Anonymous said...

Or are you trying to garner some emotional effect to give your points more effect than they might otherwise have?

Bret W.

IsTruthTrueOrNot said...

For about ten days this month, it looked like Americans were finally speaking up without fear. Partially because of Cindy Sheehan and media coverage of her personal opposition to the war.

She became entangled with several liberal organizations and went WAY off-message and lost focus. Then The Machinery starting churning and she was quickly discredited by conservative politicians and is still being mocked on conservative news outlets.

She's not very camera-ready, but in the first week of her campout she was speaking honestly and Americans were receiving her message loud and clear.

Anonymous said...

What they are teaching in OUR Schools these days.

frankinzaz said...

hurria,

please, you keep writing your comments and questions.

rather than a forum for dialogue, the majority of the ameriKans just want to be stroked with warm fuzzies. they just want to feel good between bottles of diet coke and the ride to the 7-11 for more.

cognitive dissonance. you can cut it with a knife its so thick across the usa now. must be especeially tough seeing the "light of the universe" in its suicidal death throes. how about ole pat robertson and his "kill chavez" speech ? now there's a real he-man christian solution to someone who disagrees.

Anonymous said...

Date:
Tue. Aug. 16th, 2005 - 7:25 am

Subject:
Yeah... I can see how that would make things more difficult.
from insomnia, journal of mark kraft

Security: Public


An Israeli military commander succinctly pointed out the primary difficulty involved in getting their settlers out of Gaza...

"Normally we would storm a house killing everyone inside, whereas here we have to storm the house and keep everyone alive. It’s not an easy job."

(Envisioning the sound of a thousand *D'oh!* headslaps...)
2 comments | post a comment

Anonymous said...

Zach,
All of you folks over there need to start yelling very loudly for the restart of the draft. You folks need to do it loud and now.

-roamer in mich

Ted Turner said...

frankinzaz said...

"rather than a forum for dialogue,"

What dialogue? All hurria ever does is whine about this "Super, Ultimate, Omnipotent, Massive, Monumentous, Titanic, Gargantuan, Descimating" Destruction, and tell us the US needs to get out.

And you keep referring to The American amenities such as 711's, in such a jealous tone too I might add.

Anonymous said...

frankinzaz said...

"must be especeially tough seeing the "light of the universe" in its suicidal death throes."

What do you see when you look through your minaret? A world of Muslim domination?

And I would have thought you might like Pat's approach to the problem. Its the Muslim approach, Kill everything not of your faith.

America & Britain will not be paying the Muslim "Tax" anytime soon, look somewhere else for your "Dhimmi".

You Can't Delete the Truth!

Trevor said...

Back on topic here - Zach, I think this war will last beyond my lifetime, in one form or another. It's much bigger than Iraq or the United States.

Snag said...

Even more back on target, I was thinking about the insight and training SF gets and really think we would have a more effective military, with fewer units and less cost if we had all soldiers discussing warfare honestly.
The catch phrases, slogans, and mindless indoctrination is the tool of outdated, industrial society based warfare. It is also the tool of power brokers to keep forces fighting for their personal agenda rather than defending the will of the people.

Lt. Gen. Odum (former director of the NSA) said on NPR yesterday: "Fighting a War on Terror is like fighting a War on Night Operations."
It just doesn't make sense. But seeing the simplistic arguments supporting our current misguided endevor into Iraq makes me think we are a long way from having a military of fully effective fighters. The current bombastic, mindless support of political dogma is going to keep our society firmly entrenched in unresolved conflicts. It is war that perpetuates war. But it seems that that may be the real agenda of those currently in power.
Remember, competent f ighting is not whether you can pull atrigger or catch a bullet. In todays 4th generation warfare, it involves thinking soldiers.

Nicole said...

Zach,

Thanks so much for having this blog.

Many members of congress are finally getting up the guts to stand up to the Administration, and when they are back in session in Sept., I think things will change dramatically.

I agree with Hurria in that the majority of the violence will stop if we remove all troops, security, and contractors.

Be safe, and we will keep fighting for you all to come home soon!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
What they are teaching in OUR Schools these days.

August 23, 2005 10:19 AM

Heeheehee, Anonymous, that's a March 18th 2003 propaganda piece of crap by a certain mr. Aaron Klein, not exactly what I would call the world's most reliable news resource.
We are now August 24th 2005, and a lot has changed since 'What they are teaching in your schools these days'.

No wonder the war in Iraq is going to way it is going : from bad to worse, from catastrophe to clusterfuck.

Kristen said...

Snag, I'm sure you know as well as any of us that the big wigs wouldn't feel secure if the left hand knew what the right was doing. I agree we could probably be more efficient if we all knew what was going on, but it wouldn't be as secure. The system is in place for a reason and not even intel sees the whole picture. I'm not sure what branch you were, or how much you know about the whole system, so forgive me if I'm insulting your intelligence. I was surprised to hear that SF had a higher security clearance than we do. I thought they were just the muscle. But now that I know how much they are informed and how efficient it makes them, one can't help but wonder why more sections of MI aren't better informed.

Anonymous said...

because kristen, only a few "peoples" need to know. some are more equal than others. we gots the "knowers" and the IED targets. very simple concept, really. if the stooges knew what was in store for them, rummy and butch would be out of cannon fodder. very simple.

Frank Puma said...

Mr Anonymous,

"if the stooges knew what was in store for them,"

You have done a great injustice to the soldiers of our country, in that you would call them stooges!

Soldiers like Zach have FREELY Agreed to enlist in the Armed Forces of our country, and follow their orders, no matter which side if the aisle the commander in chief hails from!

You may criticize the Administration all you wish to sir, but honorable soldiers will follow their orders whether they come from your favorite president or not!

I know a few stooges who would kick the sh*t out of you right now, for being such an ass!

Snag said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Snag said...

Kristen,
I understand the security clearence and compartmentalisation issues being former MI myself. I was more driving at teaching soldiers the social-political issues that face the modern warrior. However, as a side note, there is (was?) a call by the intelligence community to open up the books and move more information above-board. Not about specific actions, but overall knowledge.
In "idustrial age" based war, massive amounts of destruction, including collateral damage (read: dead civilians), were acceptable. The concept of "total war" was dreamed up along the way (perfected by a sociopath from Austria, although shortly all the kids wanted to try it). This kind of war is costly not just in term of human lives, but with the development of machines and ammunition. Great for business, or as President Eisenhower called it "the military industrial complex". Hell, even a Republican warned us.
But then, as we've seen in Bosnia-Herzogovina and Kosovo, a technologically advanced society can move away from that thinking and fight a war with less bloodshed (it still won't be bloodless). Many people said Clinton had no plan, however if you look at the results I'd say the operation went pretty well (in large part to thinking soldiers like Gen.'s Clark and Shalikashvili rather than the hand picked sychophants we have now). No soldiers were lost in combat and a marked dissapation of hostilities between ethnic groups (a pretty significant achievement considering the violence in the region that has lasted for millenia).
The operations in IFOR consisted of some new ideas. As an example, MP's going out to keep law and order had knowledge of the culture and were issued non-leathal weaponry in addition to standard loads. An interesting concept in 4th gen. war...don't send your enemies home in a box. The people won't resent you as much for it.
We also didn't reduce our enemy into percieved monsters. This is the most common strategy in outdated warfare. Krauts, gooks, Japs, were all names to help us think of the figure we were shooting as less human. However, when you stand there and look at the surreality of the guts and bone, it's hard not to reflect on mortality and the truth of conflict. We all bleed red. Part of PTSD, Shell-shock, Battle-fatigue, etc. comes from our uncertainty about the righteousness of our kills. Informed, knowledgeable soldiers are more able to discern whether their actions are justified or not. One can't eliminate the horrors of war (god help us when we have bloodless wars, but that's another discussion), but one can reduce the strain it places on troops and civilians by reducing the amount of carnage, destruction, and ambiguity of action.

To the war supporters,
I want to point out that there isn't a large percentage of this country that are pascifists...those that just won't support war for any reason. If you have this many people in the country questioning the war, that in itself should tell you that it's not and wasn't a good war. This much debate indicates that the motive was unclear at best. It means that the justifications for war were debatable (as evidenced by debate). Remember, this is a nation of everyone, warts and all. Since this is the case, we shouldn't have sent our troops if we have this much uncertainty in our position, yet the president went ahead with it. In the election of 2004, 49% had doubt. If it takes 2/3s to pass an amendment, shouldn't we have at least this standard of support before we send our brothers and sisters to kill and die in our name? This is a representitive government. Not only does majority rule, but there is a fundamental protection from "the tyranny of the masses." Embrace that fact, otherwise you need to find another country.
Also, we really should have an equitable draft anytime we have a war. Should the decision be made to fight, we should make sure that everyone's ass is on the line. That way I think the debate would be a little more meaningful and thoughtful.

Bless and protect the troops and the Iraqis. May from this moment forward there not be another drop of blood spilled in the name of righteousness. May we sit and break bread together and no longer kill each other on the order of our kings.

Dulce et docorum est
Wilfred Owen (U.K. soldier, WWI, 1893-1918)

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! - An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, -
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
(It is sweet and fitting to die for one's country)

Kristen said...

Thanks for clearing that up Snag. I won't dumb anything down for you anymore :) Boy do I feel like an a$$. And I agree with everything you said up there pertaining to the psychological aspects of war on soldiers. Very insightful.

Snag said...

Nah...don't feel bad. I'm often not as clear as I would like.
Anyway, that's what forums are for.
And it is these very discussions the military needs to get more active in. More G5 maybe? (Civil Affairs)

In school we were warned about egotistical commanders who would only listen to intel that suited their glory. Policy should never drive the product.
Some good reading is Alvin Toffler's War/Anti-War. It really digs into emerging concepts of 1st world/4th Generation war (Toffler has consulted many presidencies and was advisor for the modern Army/Air Force doctrine. GWB obviously didn't listen).

James Kenyon said...

Hey Zach,

stay optimistic for me and yourself. I've got a feeling this war has but a few years left. Every once in awhile the administration hints at a pullout. These Iraquis are not an illiterate people. They'll get their act together sooner rather than later. There's too much upside for them not to materialize.

Stay safe my good man; looks like you have had a few angels on your shoulder.

Catch ya later,
JIM.

Hurria said...

James,

It is you Americans and your insistence on imposing by massive, violent force your idea of what their "act" should be who are preventing the Iraqis from "getting their act together". YOU try "getting your act together" under the conditions you have brought and continue to maintain in Iraq.

"A few years left" is NOT optimistic. At the current rate of destruction conducted by you, your Iraqi proxy forces, and the criminals who are operating there thanks to you, there will be very little left of Iraq for Iraqis to get together by the time "a few years" have passed. And by that time how many more Iraqi lives will lie in the dust?

Get out, get out now, and leave Iraq to the Iraqis to sort out. Only then is there any hope of "getting their act together".

Anonymous said...

I am a former 3RD Infantry Division soldier with 13 years active duty, and 2 years NATO Allied Forces SHAPE under my belt. and i believe beyond a shadow of doubt, this government has been taken over by Corporate Fascists, These Criminals are using our Military Industrial Complex who are using our Soldiers and sacrificing them on the Global Alter of Greed to Further there Global Agendas.

Article 1 Section 8 clause 11 (Only) "Congress shall have the power to Declare war" The US. Congress has Not signed a Decleration of War since 11 Dec 1941. Congress now Cites UN resolutions , and invokes the The War powers Act of 1973, which Ceds Congress power to the President so he is able to Send US.Troops any where he Chooses with the concent of Congress of course ,up to 60 days. I thought We got Ride of KING George during the American Revolution? What dose the Decleration of Independence say? I can seem to get it through Congressmans THICK SKULL!!!

Refrences:
US. constitution, Decleration of Independence

US.Congressman Ron Paul
http://www.house.gov/paul
Bill Of Rights Defence Committee
http://www.bordc.org
Libertarian Party
http://www.lp.org
INFOWARS.COM
http://www.infowars.com

Anonymous said...

Im Chewing my US.Congressmans Butt at least once a week, Demanding him to, bring our Soldiers Home NOW!

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous, you are deadly right. This is the truth, truth is liberating to everyone, some catch it on this side of eternity some on the other. Bush is on the Dark Side. We need a righteous coup or a righteous military coup. He and all of the Senate and Congress need to step down. Whilst the military (NOT FEMA) holds new paper ballot elections for a new president and senate etc. Of course this would have to be post haste as the military would probably start to get big headed, but it could be done. The other things that can be done is a 10 MILLION man march on Washington!! say 3-4 months from now. Unfortunately we are going to see a NEW 911 probably w/ in the next 3-5 months possibly nuc here in Amerika. We may or may not launch on Iran, they may no longer be the focus, but all indications show they are. Since the media is all corporate it is hard to get this message out. Once Lord Bush sees the mene mene upstarshikin (writing on the wall)he will sink us deeper and deeper, cuz "I'm a WAR TIME Prezident!!!"

Anonymous said...

Hurria Said...

"Get out, get out now, and leave Iraq"

WE ARE NOT LEAVING!

Anonymous said...

GET OVER IT!

martinez.ca said...

Hurria has every right to tell you Americans to get the hell out her country. To leave NOW! Think about it you all war mongers… No one is bombing you, no one is pointing a gun at your fathers or brother’s heads, and no one is making you suffer for a useless cause. And how dare you think you that the American way of living is better than others!

The fact is that the United States of America invaded another country. Bush deceived his own people for the sake of corporate America. Bush has created more terrorist than Osama would never have dreamed of.

I support the soldiers over there for the courage to go out every day and face the danger that they do. I hope and pray Zack that nothing happens to you and that you'll be home safe to your family soon.

Hurria sorry to tell you this but the Americans are there and it looks like they are going to be there for a long time. Think about it.. they have invested to much $$$$ on Iraq. The Saudis are happy the have more $$$ Bush and Corp are happy they are making and will make more $$$. The American right wing are happy because the troops have “liberated” a country. I don’t know what would happen if one day they walk into Canada simply because we don’t share their moralistic values..

Anonymous said...

martinez.ca said...

"And how dare you think you that the American way of living is better than others!"

The Haitians, and Mexicans seem to think it is better!

Anonymous said...

Oh, and the Cubans too!

martinez.ca said...

Yeah they do..because Americans foreign policies have created their misery..

Anonymous said...

martinez.ca said...

"Yeah they do..because Americans foreign policies have created their misery.."

So because American policy has created their misery, they wish to come to America?

And you say it had nothing to do with the Haitian civil wars, the corrupt Mexican government, or Cuba's Dictator Fidel Castro?

Interesting....

Anonymous said...

You are a highly intelligent man who does not belong where you are. You need to beleive in your life's occupation. Obviousy, you are doing the wrong thing. Get out of the military and let the beleivers fight. You need to be doing something else.

Anonymous in Arizona

Wael said...

Zack,
It puzzles me that you can
freely express all these negative
ideas about the war and still not get in trouble with your superiors!
How is it so?

Anonymous said...

I have One question in refrence to the Oath of enlistment to Support and Defend the US. Constitution,

If we never read or study the Doccument we swore to support and defend how do we know if its not being swiped by new laws like the usa patrot act section 213?