Saturday, October 22, 2005

Statistics of War

This just in, Poll shows Iraqis back attacks on UK, US


Scupper said...

Zach, I'd be cautious about trusting this study. I'm in no way saying or inferring that what you're experiencing every day doesn't support this poll, or that we may be unpopular with some or many Iraqis, but the UK media and MoD have a notoriously bad reputation going back, oh probably at least to WWII, when it comes to accuracy, ethics, and motives.

This will play well in the US, but most UK folks will see it for what it is. Politics, UK style. Ministry sub-secretary appointees often engage in poli-games against their bosses, their PM, and against actual field commanders. Some might say this is by defintion British public policy, since even the colonies left the crown.

I just am skeptical of these guys. This is not, to me, like the Pentagon Papers.

As to it's accuracy, this "poll" seems to contradict a lot of other assertions by the media, both UK and US in the sense that it would seem impossible to conduct such a poll because of security and that consistently, Iraqi government officials and personnel are denegrated and discredited as "tools" of the US/UK military and state departments.

How could such "tools" be a credible source?

Just my .02 on the MoD. They have more scandals in that outfit than Brittany Spears has had.

Jessica said...

I just got your link from TIME magazine and wanted to thank you for what you have done for us. My sister is in Iraq as well and is coming home very soon. I truly admire what you and the rest of the soldiers are doing and just wanted to show my thanks to you. Where would we be without brave souls like you?

Cernig said...

Hi Zach,

I just thought you migght like to know the official clampdown on Daniel Goetz has raised a few hackles back home. Please pass him my best wishes and tell him "nil illegitium carborandum" (don't let the bastards grind you down).

Regards, Cernig

Frederick said...

It seems one of the people in your unit, SSG Daniel Goetz has run into somekind of trouble in regards to posts he's made. I was wondering if you had any information on this situation, or a messages from Goetz. I have a post up about his last post, stop by and check it out.

Lizzy said...


Plese give my regards to Daniel and if there is any way we get care packages over to you guys, please let me know how.

Take care of yourself always and come home when you can!

Terrible said...

I just heard about the situation with Daniel too. Please give him my regards. And I haven't been stopping in here as much as I should anyway so I will try to drop by more often. And I kinda have to agree with scupper that it seems unlikely an accurate poll could be taken under the current circumstances. And if it could I'm afraid the figure would be higher then 45%.

Anonymous said...

I am just hoping that you will not be sent to Syrian border, Zach. We are receiving scattered reports back here of border clashes with the Syrian army. That's all we need, another Cambodia.

-roamer in mich

'Lissa said...

...."according to a secret poll said to have been commissioned"...

Doesn't that say it all about the reliability factor of this article?

jae said...

Zach, I hope you are well and at least somewhat reasonably safe.
I've bookmarked this blog and will check in often.
Please send Daniel my regards.
I think of all of you over there so far from loved ones every day and wish for you to be home safe very soon.

CJ said...

What a bunch of bull!! Who'd they poll? The AIF? There's no information about how many people were polled, what the polling requirements were, what cross-section of Iraqi society it represents or anything other qualifying characteristics. Sounds like a sham poll to me.

Anonymous said...

the results of the poll just tells me why you are there!!! it should fire you up even more. they want attacks on the US? so now you have something to fight for, defend the country!

Hurria said...

"the results of the poll just tells me why you are there!!! it should fire you up even more. they want attacks on the US? so now you have something to fight for, defend the country! "

1. No, it does not tell anything at all about why Zach and his cohorts are there, what it tells is how Iraqis feel about their presence and their actions there.

2. Please try actually reading the article before commenting on it. If you did so you might realize that there is nothing whatsoever there about wanting attacks on the U.S. What the poll asked about was specifically attacks on "U.S. and British troops inside Iraq. This is an absolutely reasonable and normal reaction by anyone who has been subjected to more than 2.5 years of brutality, death, destruction, and total deterioration of quality of life by a foreign power.

3. Zach's presence in Iraq has never had anything whatsoever to do with defending the U.S., it does not now, and it never will - the exact opposite is the reality. Knowledge of that fact is, I am sure, a big part of Zach's agony over being there.

Hurria said...

Scupper, there is no good reason not to trust what that article says, and every reason to have confidence in it. The results are absolutely consistent with similar poll questions asked throughout the occupation, and fits perfectly with anecdotal reports. In fact, if anything I would suspect support for attacks on occupation troops is much higher than the poll indicates. It is very rare to hear of an Iraqi who does not approve of attacking the occupation forces.

To thing that the majority of Iraqis are not completely fed up with your presence and your bloody "liberation" and your pretense at bringing "democracy" is delusional at best. In fact, some of the ones who are most fed up are the ones who originally supported the invasion because they stupidly believed that nothing could be worse than Saddam. They are the ones who are now crying the most and asking with great irony "Saddam, where are you?".

Hurria said...

"thank you for what you have done for us."

And what, exactly, IS that?

"I truly admire what you and the rest of the soldiers are doing and just wanted to show my thanks to you."

Thanks for what, exactly?

"Where would we be without brave souls like you?"

Less despised, and safer, for starters.

jd said...

I guess that "brutality, death, destruction, and total deterioration of quality of life" is only alright then if it is done by someone who is a citizen of the country then. Or have you forgotten what Saddam is on trial for?

Hurria said...


That is one of the most idiotic of the standard arguments employed by Americans to try to excuse their brutality and disregard for the property, welfare and lives of Iraqis. If you cannot come up with something better than that it is best to keep quiet.

Anonymous said...


Please, enough is enough. This is ZACH'S web site so that Zach can express HIS thoughts. Please stop using HIS site for your political debates and arguments. You voice your opinions on seemingly every comment that you do not agree with, as well as some that you do. Please! I, for one, am so worn out with all of the arguing! Please create your own website and invite everyone to debate there. That would be a much more effective forum for you. Let the comment section here be for those who wish to speak to Zach.

Thank you.

Zach, for all that you wrestle with, my thoughts and prayers are with you always.

(remaining anonymous as I see other postings by someone with the same name)

Hurria said...

Dear Anonymous,

Zach and not you owns this site. Zach and not you decides what is and is not appropriate to post in his comment section. I will continue to post my observations, experiences, and thoughts until he and only he asks me to stop. On his and only his request I will respectfully comply.

To you I respectfully suggest that if you do not want to hear what I have to say that you simply do not read my posts. Believe me, my feelings will not be hurt.

Hurria said...


PS I cannot help noticing that whereas you clearly object to my posting my views here you do not seem to have the same problem with those to whom I replied. Why is that?

Anonymous said...

As a fellow UK citizen, I'd like to question Scupper's view of this poll. I have no idea how accurate it is, although Hurria is correct to say the claims are consistent with other polls and much anecdotal evidence. But why does Scupper think the UK media and MoD would fake up a poll result like this?

The UK government is in deep political trouble over the Iraq war. Back when "we" invaded, they managed to muster just enough support to let their invasion go ahead, mainly by faking up claims of "45 minutes from destruction!", non-existent WMDs and all the rest. Right now the UK public is at least as sceptical about the supposed merits of the war in Iraq as it was before Blair's fake "dossier". So the UK and US governments are both desperate for evidence that things are getting better in Iraq. The last thing they need is more evidence that the people we were supposed to be helping now hate our guts even more.

As for the UK media, the Murdoch press wholeheartedly supported the war, the other rightwing papers supported the war, the "liberal" Guardian and Observer supported the war half-heartedly, and only the leftish tabloid "Daily Mirror" and the left "Independent" consistently opposed the war. Meanwhile, the BBC gave masses of airtime to government and pro-war voices in its news and debates. Even now that the chickens are coming home to roost, most of our media echo the "oh dear what a mess but we've got to stick it out" line that allows the government to sustain the occupation of Iraq. Most of the time they can't be bothered to investigate these issues anyway, as we've all "moved on" from the debate over Iraq, to use Mr Blair's casual phrase. Of course the Iraqis haven't "moved on" - they're stuck in the hell we created, hence these poll results.

In other words, this poll serves neither the aims of the government nor those of the bulk of the media. If it helps nobody in power, then I'd be inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt. If you want to worry about government conspiracies, I'd take a look at the Plamegate/Niger yellowcake scandal:

Wishing peace and safe home-coming to all in Iraq.


Hurria said...

Dear Anonymous,

When can I expect you to request that Taff get a blog of his own and not use Zach's website for his political debates and arguments?

Anonymous said...

Ouch, Hurria! I was agreeing with you!

Peace etc


Hurria said...

No, no, Taff, I know that! I was merely pointing out a very obvious double standard lately displayed by yet another Anonymous a few posts above.

Anonymous said...

No worries, Hurria! As for Scupper's UK media conspiracy theory regarding the Iraq poll, would it be churlish to remind him of the enthusiasm with which the US media has consistently parroted US government propaganda about Iraq (Judith Miller, the NYT, Fox News, talk radio etc), long after the rest of the world saw through the tissue of lies that were used to "justify" this war? Again, if you're worried about media conspiracies, I might be inclined to start with the corporate US media if I were you. Just a thought.

peace etc

Anonymous said...

Sheeesh! I guess I should have known my comments would be subject to ATTACK. I think I will stick to reading Zach's comments and his alone. It is safer that way, and there is no aggression there. Sorry for the intrusion Zach.

Hurria said...

Oh come on! Don't be so thin skinned. There was no attack, there was merely a response.